I think my SC is still running Too Hot
 

I recently replaced the internal engine thermostat in my 78 3.0 SC while I had the engine out. I thought for sure that was the cause of my running hot. The thermostat tested stuck/not good. I tested and confirmed the replacement as good/yes functioning correctly, before I put it in.

So, yesterday, 95 degree day, highway miles, the un-numbered temp gauge stayed steady at about the 10:00 o clock position. At least a quarter inch from the red.

Should I be working toward keeping my temps lower? Like around the 9:00 o'clock position? Or is it normal/OK to run in this higher range?

I still have only the trombone front cooler, and yes it gets hot, but I'm thinking I might want to upgrade to the Carrera cooler, but then the question will be with or without the fan,,, or put in a front valance cooler,, or both?

I might add a complete aftermarket AC system someday, so I think I need to have my engine cooling issues under control before any such further upgrades.

I've also read here that timing could have something to contribute to engine running temperature. Still have stock vacuum advance distributor, at standard setting, I believe.

Any thoughts or comments?

Thanks

I installed a Mocal cooler with a fan. It's in the fender well. The cooler is a big improvement over the less than effective trombone.

The carrera cooler with fan is an adequate solution. you can not run a/c without one.

Thermostat test........
 

Scot,

You did the test for the engine thermostat but did you check the auxiliary thermostat too? As you well observed, the engine thermostat does the initial oil warming up @ 170°F followed by the aux. thermostat @ 186°F. Use an infrared thermometer to read your temperature and compare the reading to your gauge. For auxiliary cooler? You can't go wrong with the OEM Carrera cooler (fan or without fan). I removed my OEM fan because it only obstructs air flow through the fender and since I don't do city driving at all, the choice was simple.

However, the front bumper mounted cooler is more efficient than a fender mounted one. Just my two cent.

Tony

+1 on the Carrera oil cooler/block off and fan.
'83 SC w 221k miles...today at 101 degress, 80 mile trip mostly at 70 mph, up/down hill with some city driving never got over 210.
Prior with the trombone the same drive (do it regularly) would have been 20-30 degrees higher.

The other day it was 107, running a Carrera oil cooler and A/C my SC oil temp is between the 8 o clock and 9 o clock position on the highway.

The Mocal cooler in the right front wheel serves the purpose very well. I did put a Spal fan on the Mocal and wired a switch to the dash. I use the fan in stop and go driving in very hot weather. I even had very satisfactory temps while doing summertime track events at Summit Point, VIR, etc meaning somewhat southern and hot, humid conditions. If you are doing a lot of track events, I would look to the front bumper mounted cooler.

Any of the suggestions are far better than the trombone.

You need to get a real oil cooler on that thing. The 10:00 position on the temp guage is around 250 degrees.:eek: I'd also recommend installing a temp gauge that measures in degrees. I believe our host sells this conversion.

Which weight oil are you running? I can sit in stop and go traffic in 100 deg weather with the AC on all day, and never cross 9 o'clock. I don't have anything other than the trombone cooler and I only here it gurgling every so often.

Agree on the oil cooler, I added the Carrera oil cooler and fan (plus BMW 210 degree thermostat) and saw a big decrease in temperature on my SC. I was pushing 230 to 240 on really hot days (90+) with no air conditioning on or anything. Now I have not gone above 210 degrees, even with a 100 or so day on Friday and pushing the engine hard. I am very happy with the upgrade and decreased temps, very good peace of mind.

Regards,

Chuck

Scott R, I'm kind of amazed that with only a trombone you can sit in stop and go traffic in 100 deg weather and never cross 9 o'clock. Are you sure your temp gauge is working properly?

Positive it is. With the amount of time and expense I have in my engine I have both mechanical and the dash gauges as a check for temp and oil pressure.

+1 on making sure the rest of the system is working properly before spending $$ on upgrades.

1. check the function of the thermostat in the right rear wheel well (does the trombone cooler get hot?)
2. check for dents in the oil lines running the length of the right side. Dents can restrict oil flow and reduce cooling.

I agree but will add that these earlier cars were not designed for South West heat and even a well maint. car will run hotter than you'd like with out some help (real radiator/fan)

Every little bit helps - drop your hard oil lines and scrub them very clean, same on trombone. Invest in the correct sender/gauge (easy to swap out) so you have the numbers right in front of you. I moved to the 28-tube oil cooler and numbered gauge on my '78 SC, but then again in Seattle WE HAVE HAD LESS THAN ONE HOUR OF TEMPS OVER 80 DEGREES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

at 80 degrees ambient, cold weather, I barely get out of the lower white line Lol....this guy lives in New Mexico.....it's 105 today. Those trombones don't play any kind of music in that heat.

103 Here on Saturday, no problems.

The actual temps are on the original gauge way over on the left. Flashlight and reading glasses. Once the temps are understood why bother with a new gauge?

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned or if you mentioned you had done this already-

Have you verified with an infrared thermometer the temperature of the oil filter? I'd hate to see you jump through a bunch of hoops only to realize the sender wasn't telling the truth.

See what the temp is first, from an independent/verifiable method before throwing parts at it. You may be surprised of what's really causing your perceived temp problem.

Again, if you've done this, ignore my post please.

Thanks Bob- I had to go downstairs to see if my bucket of parts had this and it does. I learned something new today about my junk, thanks to you.

Thanks all, for the input. I've been running BP 20-50 oil. Before tearing into the engine, I verified the temp gauge and sender in hot oil and a real thermometer. So, yes, temps are approaching 250 on a hot day on the highway! I checked the hard oil lines tonight, and the lower one has an indent, like from a lift pad, right behind the front wheel well, but it's not crushed by any means. just compressed a little. The trombone gets hot, so oil is going there. I will confirm again soon. I noticed a few different choices for front fender real coolers from Pelican, or elephant racing, or mocal, so I think I'll be putting one in soon. :)

What I did to lower temps
 

1. Get the Oil cooler for the front right fender,
2. Some people use other brands but I use the LUCAS oil treatment..1 for every 4 quarts. this will lower the temps and treat your engine right.
3. Check out this thread and my post for the other necessary oil system mod, this will do great things for your pressure and foaming...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/309123-oil-spewing-oil-tank-breather.html
4. Clean your motor, top and bottom....remove the alternator and clean out all the gunk and dirt from the top of the motor. All of this dirt and grease traps heat.
5. Clean your oil tank, you would be surprised how much dirt and junk surround your oil tank and keep heat in.
6. get rid of the heat reactors and go with the SSI setup for the exhaust. The cooling fan helps cool the headers and cuts down on radiant heat.
7. I got the "HEAT SHEETS" for the valve covers and they look nice, and they say they work, but I cant offer any real proof.

Going through the same thing right now. I have my engine torn down and I still have not found a smoking gun. My sc was running at 250f on a not so warm day. I had a lot of small items that were troublesome but nothing obvious. At this time I'm doing a top end refresh. Machine shop found the exhaust guides were badly worn that could be a issue along with the rest of the little things.

Chuck,

On the BMW sender; did you just pick one spade for the ground and use the other for the factory sender wire? Thanks

I noticed that my car didn't cool as well when the trombone cooler was covered in road crap/grime. I clean mine with a little steel wool (superfine) now and then. That seems to help. I also have the air scoop for mine. The only time I've had issues with it getting past the 9'oclock is in stop and go traffic on VERY hot days. I can't imagine stop and go in 100 degree weather not hitting 9'oclock or more with a trombone cooler.

The fan should help. But ultimately a carrera cooler upgrade would be ideal. Although I'm sure the fan is probably more than plentiful (and a big cost difference). The trombone cooler isn't totally useless, there's just not a ton of air moving past it, so any extra amount helps. Keeping it clean also maximizes how well that effect even works.

Yes, one to end to ground and the other to the factory relay that I installed. I made my own wiring harness based on a schematic somewhere on this site. The sensor just completes the circuit when it get's hot enough and activates the relay.

Thanks,

Chuck

Thanks!

Last summer my newly acquired SC was running in the 240F range in mid 90F heat here in Mississippi.
Having all the classic signs of living in "Mouseville", I was determined to use a shop vac and decreasing diameter lengths of hose small enough to sneak past the fan and on top of the engine to remove the obvious bits of debris I could visually see, including but not limited to pieces of pecan shell, but it wasn't until we pulled the engine out for a top end build that I was really able to address the problem. <- end of run on sentence.
That being said, I'm more than certain you can remove the right hand upper valve cover and address any debris/mouse nest that may be atop your oil cooler. In my case there was a nest and the fins of the cooler extremely impacted with tiny bits of pecan shell. We couldn't use a dental pick to remove the bits, didn't want to use compressed air and bend things, anything liquid such as water was going to swell the bits up.....the successful method wound up being to actually drop the inverted oil cooler on the garage floor from a height of a mere inch or so in order to knock the trash out.
Drove my car today, only about 78F ambient but had a hard time managing to get to 190F, bone stock with the trombone.

This thread got me thinking...and so has my car since it's finally sorted and I have time to pay attention to how its driving instead of awaiting the next issue.

My '78 SC runs as pictured, took this after 20 minutes of driving, couple red-line shifts but mostly hanging around 2500-3500rpm. Car has completely stock trombone but I've added the air scoop. Its 75-80F here today.

I can't find the degree numbers mentioned, the picture is normal operating. It will go up another needle width if stop-go or I'm really thrashing it.

Is this normal for my set-up:confused:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1368216630.jpg

Inside the bezel on the left side are temp numbers in centigrade. Put your head close to the steering wheel turn eyes left.....small and a stoopid place to put them....but they are there.

Damn it Joe Bob.... In Deg. C...I can't do dem kakerlashuns

Thanks;)

Write a letter to Ferd IV.....see where it gets ya....

Here ya go, sweetums....:rolleyes:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1080755488.jpg

Where do you get one of those oil filter covers....?

Dude......that's a cool collar....where ya been? ;)

So my piece is running 240-260F...

Think its time for a Mocal fender cooler set-up kids SmileWavy

That gauge is from a later SC. 78 and 79 have a different gauge and sending unit (sensor).

911 OIL TEMPERATURE/PRESSURE MODULE OVERLAYS

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1368224276.jpg

Yours might be the first one in that pic but I'm not 100% certain. You'd have to look for the tiny numbers.

Unless you want to go out and buy one....I can send you an IR temp gun....point click, temp.....send it back when you are done.....

I truly appreciate the offer but I think an oil cooler "mod" is in order.

It's a longevity and preventative kind of upgrade...which I am all for.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat3.gif

This is what's in my '78SC. Those #s are really in there. There is a center line @ 9 O'Clock.

Top of bottom hollow white box looks to be 60C and the beginning of the red is 150C