to widebody, katigbr, and others: Paint and weld DIY????

[82SC]

is painting a real DIY job?
obviously people have good reputations because this is a skilled job and one that takes experience.

I am getting a pre-73 tub and I plan to have the flares welded by a professional (although I am wondering if this is something I can do)...i am getting new 73 flares from pelican

I want to strip the car myself...and now I am thinking about painting it myself.

I have heard a paint job is mostly in the prep work...sanding and being meticulous...

anyone have tips?
I am not trying to build a concours car, but I want my car to look good...and I want it to be durable...

I am trying to save as much money as possible...time is not an issue, and garage space is big...

My welding experience is zero, and painting is low too...but I think of myself as a fast learner and pretty dexterious

thanks

MJ

[dickster]

i have real limited experience but i'll have a go................

i part restored a triumph stag some years ago.

i could already weld, so that was not a problem. basically position panels with clamps until you're satisfied with the fit, then use self taping screws/rivets to hold everything together for welding.

if you've not done any welding, you could position the panels then get someone to do the welds.

i would not recommend practicing on a porsche! it takes some time to learn. good equipment is expensive, and its hard to weld with cheap equipment.

as for the painting, i had not done any before, and although i got "fairly" good results on the stag, i would not consider the quality good enough for a porsche.

again you could do alot of prep and save money. find a good body shop, and see what you can do between you. i am sure they will accomodate you.

good luck

[85eurocarrera]

as far as painting goes someone on this list turned me on to autobodystore.com

Good site!
Joe

[82SC]

yeah this car is not the best to learn on....

in terms of practicing...I was thinking of cutting off the rear flares very close to the wheel well and try welding them right back onso that if I screw up...I have cut and screwed up on part of the rear 1/4 that is gonna get cut off anyways...

equip...I will probably rent everything...

if I can weld, strip, and prep...then I guess just getting a spray would not be that bad....$$ wise...

what does a good spray cost??? in Los Angeles???

hmmm...maybe it is just a pipe dream

MJ

[gregk1]

PPG base coat clear coat Paint process is verry user friendly. My first paint job was a Corvette and I was just going to do the door jam's. I found that it was real easy and did the whole car. And with a metalflake paint to boot. Start small and work your way up. If you buy a gun get an HVLP gravity cup gun Good luck

[Efrain68912]

A buddy of mine who works at an auto body shop discouraged me from using PPG or DuPont paints, saying the new stuff was just awful. He recommends Line 55 Glasurit.

[gregk1]

Never herd of that stuff. And never had any problems with PPG And alot of shops use it around hear But any base coat clear coat is fairly easy to shoot and sets up quickly. Just my .02

[pbs911]

Like a previous post said, go to autobody.com . Len Stuart runs a BBS which attracts alot of expert advice on painting. Read each of the posts and you will have a very good idea of what is in store. He also sells a Paintif 101 video which I purchased and is very helpful on an introductory level. It is enough to get you started. Plan on practicing before you put any paint on the car. If you have old

I believe it is a DIY job if you have the tools. Aircompressor with a min of 11.7 cfm @ 40 psi, and a QUALITY HVLP sprayer. You will also need a cheepee sprayer for the primer. These item alone will set you back about $800. Quality 2 stage poly paint, thinners and setting agents will set you back another $500-$1000. It is very difficult to paint an entire car with low budget Homedepo style compressors and Harbor Freight HVLP sprayers.

Another consideration is the type of paint, or color, you will be using. Light, non-metalic colors are more foregiving. Dark or metalic color are the more difficult. I couldn't think of a more rewarding project, IMHO, than painting your own car. Well maybe a full 911 motor rebuild. Good luck.

[82SC]

wow...sounds like I should leave it in the hands of a pro...

i wasn't planning on buying equip...but find a place that rents...

with the responses so far...I think I will do as prep as I can...and maybe try primering the car...

unless the painter I choose says priming is not going to make a huge dent in the price...

hmmm...welding?

[widebody911]

I've done several garage paintjobs. The first couple were dismal, which was more of a function of not having the right equipment than anything - I painted a VW bus with a touch-up gun and a diaphram compressor - the one my g/f used for airbrushing! Once I got better equipment, things got easier!

Painting a car is 99% preparation 1% application. When you have the car professionally painted, that's where the bulk of your money is going to go. This is where you can economize by doing things yourself.

I'm getting ready to paint my 911; just bought the paint last weekend. I will take me about 2 weeks or so to prep and disassemble, and about 4 hours to paint. Then a week or so to color-sand and re-assemble. I actually started sanding a little last night. My car needs very little in the way of bodywork, although it does have some interesting 'challenges' namely dents in the cowling and bends in the hood from a flyup.

I've used the PPG base/clear system before, and while it is forgiving for amateurs, it also presents special challenges. First of all, you'll need two fluid tips - one for the base and one for the clear. Second, when shooting the clear, you have to be very careful to get all of the evacuated - otherwise it fogs the clearcoat. The base/clear responds beautifully to color-sanding however! Sand it down with #2000 then #2500, then 3M Perfect-IT III polish, then 3M machine glaze. I've heard of people using 3000, but I wasn't able to find any.

The last few paint jobs I've done were using PPG CLV. It's a single stage acrylic urethane. It's very easy to apply, and very easy to color-sand. As a bonus, it's also easy to blend in if you have to re-spray a spot later - the base/clear is difficult to do without it showing, because you end up with 'edges' in the base and clear.



With the base/clear, you have to basically paint the car twice, and you have to do the clear within hours of the base. This means you have a very short window to get the base perfect before you can do the clear. That means perfect coverage, no runs, dust, or anything. This is one reason the base/clear is harder for an amateur paintjob. Also, the clear takes quite a while to dry, leaving you exposed to dust, bugs, etc.

Here's a shot of 2 cars I painted within a a few months of each other. The ghia is PPG base/clear, the bus is single stage. The bus was easier to paint, but the ghia has a much deeper shine.



Here's my 60 double-door panel being assembled just after paint. I color sanded down to 2000, then polished. It has a great shine, but still not the depth of the base/clear. It was a helluva lot easier to paint though!



I chose to use the CLV on the 911 due to the time savings. I'll still have a kick-ass shine, and won't have to worry about it getting nicked on the track. I can just whip up a small batch of paint and fix at my leisure.

[pbs911]

If you are going to have someone else do the painting then forget the primer. They will probably charge you more to remove your work. The primer stage is the hard part since it forms the foundation for the paint and is where you get all the panels straight. The painting part is the easy part - spray, color sand, and buff out.

[Chuck Moreland]

I've painted two cars myself using rented equipment. I've also prepped one car and had it sprayed by Maaco (cheapy body shop).

If you are expecting a concourse paint job, don't do this. It won't happen on you first try.

If you want a decent paint job and a whole bunch of self satisfaction, then go for it. Be forworned it is a LOT of work. Patience is the key to good results. If you get frustrated and start cutting corners it will show. Take everything apart / off.

Cheapy places like Maaco can actually do a decent job of spraying if you hand them a disassembled car that is all prepped. They cut costs by shorting the prep, so if you prep it can be okay. That solves your equipment problems and doesn't cost much. They also use cheapy paint that looks good when sprayed but oxidizes quickly. Buy the paint yourself and have them shoot it.

For me I need to actually spray the paint to feel I've done the job and get the sense of pride and satisfaction. YMMV.

[Kurt B]

Welding is a lot harder than you think. If you get a welder, get a dremel. I will...and I really shouldn't, but I will post pictures of the rat ***** that is my muffler welds. I don't know if it's because I suck or if it's because the welder doesn't have the amperage, but it's not easy for sure.

For a future concourse, you have to learn. You want to weld or paint and be concourse, NO. I finally know how to paint body panels, and I know the exact steps that need to be taken, but I f@cked up a lot of things before I finally realized what needs to be done and where.

[widebody911]

I see a lot of people wringing their hands over primer. Ya know what the best primer is? Original paint! If your original paint is in good shape adhesion-wise, your best bet is to just break it down and shoot right over it.

I'll be taking lots of pix as I do my paint job, and I'll write up a little page on it - stay tuned!

[JeremyD]

I actually got pretty good results on an Alfa I did all the prep work on - then took to Maaco and asked them what was the best paint they could buy and how much to shoot it. I agreed to tape it off, remove eveything else, they charged me around $400 to shoot it with LP paint and a clearcoat. It looked great 6 years later, even in the Florida sun. Was it concourse? No but I received comments all the time on the paint job... Prep is the key!

[john70t]

There's also the factor of the quality of the air as well.

I saw a clip of these hotrodding old-timers who fixed up a pretty good system. They had the compressor output go through a cooling tube so the water would condense and up and over the garage in copper pipes with a water drain on the end. Following that was a couple of air dryers.
They might have used some infrared or heat lamps as well. A dehumidifier in the room probably wouldn't hurt also.