Dropped ROW 3.2 engine rebuiling trans + "while in there"
 

So today I decided to remove my ROW 3.2 Engine and transmission from my SC,

After developing some problems with my transmission
Where my 1st gear would no longer engage I knew there was trouble in paradise.

I contemplated switching to a 923 (7:31 ring pinion transmission)
but quickly abandoned the idea
As posted on this thread---->
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/693056-who-has-done-923-transmission-912e-7-31-conversion-im-about.html


Now its back to the 915 transmission



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/f073bb0e.jpg
I Always forget how much fun it is to remove Older 3.2 engines !
I spent 3 days studying the 101 Porsche Projects book our host wrote (such and awesome book and highly recommended, I have 3 copies for different rooms)

<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/101 porsche projects/cmdrtaco/Porsche 912/101ProjectsforyourPorsche-Dempsey.jpg?o=0" target="_blank"><img src="http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu5/cmdrtaco/Porsche%20912/101ProjectsforyourPorsche-Dempsey.jpg" border="0"></a>

----> Pelican Parts - Product Information: BK-131569AP

So after paging the book for a few days (in the bathroom, during breaks, during lunch and at night in bed )

I pretty much had it all fresh in my memory.

Every single item came out with out a hitch
(other than a rusty exhaust clamp)
I found some ugly stuff while digging around

Ugly drop links
bad sway bar bushing
Question able motor mounts
Questionable rear shocks
Various lines to replaces
the list goes on



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/23dbc873.jpg

To make life easier the Turbo style decklid was removed and most likely not returning to the Chassis ! A Duck tail will take it's place

Something very disturbing I found was a ruptured intake boot!
It has two holes in different spots! yikes not good

If someone has one let me now... Other wise I may have to go bug my old boss at LA Porsche



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/ecc4784b.jpg

Engine was a little dusty.... Ok ALOT of dusty!!!!
I will have to clean (pressure wash it! before it goes back in)
Engine only has 85k miles on it !

If any one has any ideas of lil project to do please chime in:

Thermostat housing seal being replaced
Valves already adjusted
New rear mail seal already installed

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/7e72760d.jpg


One thing that did not make me too happy was the flywheel it self!
It looked glazed and felt wavy like an old brake rotor!.... time to replace???
All fuel lines felt nice and soft no cracks on the that I could see
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/912c3fec.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/614cf5dc.jpg

The 915 Transmission looked pretty nice from the outside
(other than being dusty) No Oil leaks on the Engine or transmission that was a big plus

looks like this guy will come apart tomorrow

Going to rebuild the Axles
purchased gasket/seal kit

I found 5 very small teeth in the blue Swepco oil
I used a painters paint filter to find any traces of shrapnel in the oil...
luckily everything was fine and only found evidence of carnage in the magnetic drain plug.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/7a5011ef.jpg
The engine and transmission mounts look ok but I made a quick call over to Clint Rebel Racing Products Link----> Home to order his Engine/transmission mounts ! As usual He was very helpful and quick with the order.

I'm very exited to install these on to my car I think they will make a huge difference in feel. I also picked up some Bilstein Sport rear shocks to go with the Bilstein front Sport inserts I got from Rebel Racing previously.




Now moving on to more troubles

This Throw out bearing below has some serious play!!!!
Is this normal ? moves quarter of an inch in either direction (up/down)
purchased new a few hundred miles ago
the transmission would make noise when I would not press the clutch in
Like a chatter very very annoying

the clutch plate had even wear through out
so I don't think anything was warped
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/393cd5d0.jpg

The underbelly of the engine bay!!!

Looks like I need new heater tubes
and a Serious steam clean

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/dabc2d2c.jpg




More photos coming soon

-Steam cleaning before/after shots
- Full transmission rebuild shots (process)
-replacement Bilstein shocks
-engine upgrades and leak down test
- Rebel Racing engine mount instal
- engine/trans install



If you guys have any tips or suggestion please help out a newbie

Have you looked into having them rebuilt?

Looks like big fun! On a few of your questions -

The flywheel can be turned like a brake rotor, and sounds like it should be, as long as it's within tolerance.

If I recall correctly a little lateral play in the throwout bearing is normal. Your chattering might have more to do with the condition of the flywheel, or possibly cable adjustment issues.

I think I have one of those intake boots in good shape. What's the part number? PM me for details.

You doing the transmission yourself? I'm sure you know the Peter Zimmerman wiki/tutorial. I did a 911 (late 901) transmission a couple years back, and enjoyed the challenge.

Good luck!
Mike

Nice job so far.

All I can say after looking at your photos is....Start by cleaning. Then continue cleaning. And when you are done, clean some more. :)

Nice car, but filthy engine/trans and engine compartment.

If I did this(and I am lazy), then so can you.

Please keep us posted. This is a neat project.

Thanks for the comments


Hi Bill, I didn't look into Overhauling !
didn't even cross my mind I just ordered new ones from Rebel Racing

I will see if I can sell the ones off my chassis, maybe someone wants to rebuild them.
I never heard of anyone rebuilding them, that is pretty interesting


mcaterino/ Mike
I'm hoping the flywheel can still be turned
I've never done it, might have to take it to a shop or something... ?
The cheapest new flywheel I could find (84-86) was close to $400

The cable for the clutch looked fairly new ...maybe clutch adjustment!


the part number for the intake boot is 930.110.356.02
I figured If I couldn't find one easily I would just glue it and JP weld it ???

the Transmission is being rebuilt by my self (as a learning apprentice) guided by a well known Porsche Tuner who has all the items necessary for a full rebuild + special tools. He tells me its a full days labor to do it

I will document the whole thing... maybe a youtube video and photos for sure.

I'm crossing my fingers that I only need minimal parts



CCM911

TOTALLY Agree with you
The engine compartment is FILTHY

I spayed the engine with PB Blaster Citrus degreaser and Yep aerosol
It was really cleaning up nice I was very surprised how clean it was under the muck.

I plan to Steam clean the engine compartment for the most part is cleaning up well!

I'm trying to close my eyes about "while I'm there" parts to buy since I'm extremely low on cash...






http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/2eef6b50.jpg
This Is the Engine compartment after cleaning it with a Rag and some Zep Spray... I think the steam cleaner will really make this look nice and fresh

Planning to take apart the fuse panel and make it nice and legit.

New Fuel Filter
New hood shocks
Clean up some wire



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/06e22e1c.jpg

This car needs new Heater box accordions

Maybe get some from home depot ??? or something hahahahah
suggestions ?


Looks like it needs some new engine surround plastic... but short on change

Wonder if 964 will work ??? I got spares of those
Need some engine Sound detaining---

I might cut up some 964 Sound detaining I have in new condition
Need to remove the Charcoal canister since its not being used

Its just kinda hanging there from previous engine build
Dead weight


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/b7228f5f.jpg
What really has to go is the Cabriolet Engine support mount with shock

any one want to trade for a solid ??? Or want to buy it so I can get a Solid one


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/ec1746e1.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/5c8a34a2.jpg
(before cleaning)




http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/08ce4580.jpg

This is the Ugly Flywheel looks like

New flywheel bolts coming soon




http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/67f1eeed.jpg
After a minute of simple PB blaster Citrus cleaner and light rubbing
This is gonna clean up very nice

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/b9a4aa53.jpg
Got the Ultrasonic cleaner out.... added some degreaser in the mix and the parts are coming out super clean
n

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/d96faa42.jpg
This is the 915 Taking a bath ... It cleaned out pretty nice
I barely washed it and scrubbed it. Thank goodness I have a parts cleaner

I'm hoping it looks like new after I get it all rebuilt



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/ec352fc1.jpg


SO HERE IS A BAD SIGN!!!!

It seems the nose cone has been removed already !
I found some non factory sealant and the bolts upfront looked like they had been removed

Maybe this is why it was shifting funny....bad job ?

Total bummer, I will post what I find




Any suggestions would be awesome
This is gonna be a fun project

Oh yeah this is the transmission mount

I'm gonna sand blast it shortly then a quick spray paint

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/45e7dad4.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/c31945f7.jpg

The boot I have is 930.110.358.05. Not sure if it makes a difference or not. You can do a little research to see, and let me know.

Mike

That is one well stocked garage. I wished I have the room and a parts cleaner.

How do you like that ultrasonic parts cleaner? What model and what was the price?
Good luck with your transmission repair.

mcaterino seems like that is for an SC
I need one for a Carrera I think I will fit mine ..super glue and JB weld.
At least until I can afford to buy a new one, my project bill keeps going up Like willy wonkas glass elevator


yelcab1 My boss was kind enough to let me borrow the tools and lift


kodioneill The ultrasonic is nice It cleans parts really well
Not sure of the model need to double check... Craigslist had a few I picked this one.
Bare in mind the Ultrasonic cleaner pictured is pretty small... only for hardware and small pieces...looks big in the photos



I'm currently waiting to hear back from my friend about my Transmission
Said he would be free later today and tomorrow so I could tackle it

More photos of the build coming .....well once it gets done

The Story of my Engine drop/ Trans rebuild continues

Sunday was the day I was finally able to get into my transmission and start the rebuild process.

It was a very hot steamy California summer day, I had woken up at 4am so I could make it over to the world famous
Pomona VW/Porsche Swapmeet.Arrived at 5am, I didn't score too many items so the day was already kinda dry. I left by 8:30am with a Ducktail, Tail lights, Some minor parts, emblems and 70 pounds of Legos!

I was hoping to score another tranny, maybe a flywheel and parts for some members who requested items. NO LUCK

It was kind of a Dry day due to the Hot hot weather

I made my way out to my friends shop after a short nap and some food...


Pulled the ultra clean tranny that I had shrinked wrapped out of my friends borrowed car....

FINALLY ITS TRANSMISSION REBUILD TIME

The tranny came apart fairly easy
We cleaned a table added some diaper absorbent rags
Got the 13mm tools out and worked my way in...

This is the first thing we saw!!!!!

HORROR
NOT FOR THE WEAK OF HEART
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...g/1c546855.gif
I though I only saw Freddy Kruger in nightmares

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/51b4559e.jpg
AAHHHHHHH
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/e22f1d4b.jpg

That's right the Synchro Ring was demolished and stuck in the case!
(I guess that's why it wouldn't shift to first)

Below is another angle of it
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/922a1e8a.jpg


This is what I ended up pulling out of the front box
YIKES!!! this is very scary
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/89ba030a.jpg


A little peak below and what did I see
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/2134e592.jpg
Rocky Balboa himself couldn't knock this many teeth out

a little more removal (sorry about the pic)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/82f4b023.jpg
As this point I has towels and was picking up all the particles of metal.



Notice the teeth hanging on the case
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/f1806cf1.jpg

The little cover (window) was also covered in metal bits
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/2bbc8760.jpg



Doing my best to keep items organized

Then we dug into the next part of the Case!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/154319ce.jpg

More damage!
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/b5e058be.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/2134e592.jpg


The Slider was beyond useable ...totally munched out...gone!
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/c5d25d33.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/1cd85b41.jpg
side by side with another one of my Transmissions villians
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/6ca2067b.jpg

Some cleaning and further inspecting
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/a73d8d13.jpg


Next was the Differential side cover where I knew I would find more teeth
but not only did I find teeth

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/3caeba5c.jpg
Found gear brakes and various more pieces shrapnel

ahhhhhhh (sorry about the photo)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/03bd0147.jpg

The Differential looks ok but will need to be cleaned very thoroughly

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/e3be1ac7.jpg

I Wish I had an LSD but can't afford one right now....and I don't know of anyone selling one... (very low budget)

digging deeper
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/406dce8b.jpg


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/ef539f14.jpg

The Parts spread
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/55a2174d.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/cab9178e.jpg


Before and after
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/f7879953.jpg



The Verdict:

I GOT VERY VERY LUCKY

My Transmission really only needed 4 major items

1st gear Synchro ring
1st Gear teeth brake gear
a slider
Reserve gear
Gasket kit

all other gears and items looks great! and very useable
No crazy damage or bent items I was out of the critical condition room!!!!!

I was told that I should consider replacing my 2nd gear in the next year or so...
I won't be selling 915 transmissions any know...you can bet on that

I was lucky to have a friend with all the items laying around... granted I still owe him.
He has been one of the coolest persons I've ever dealt with in the Porsche world so Unselfish.... but he chooses to remain anonymous so I'll respect that.


We will be finishing the Job most likely tomorrow.

Still todo:

ADD a 915 factory Oil cooler
Machine the center case for the oil cooler boss
parts wash the internals of the case
actually put it back together again

switching transmission oils... no more swepco... any one want a bottle ?




Today:

I sourced some other items for my Trans


My biggest Score Today (Monday) came when Dave at TRE provided me with a
Excellent condition used 84-86 Flywheel (very specific)
I took my flywheel for him to look at while we made deal on other items
I was wondering if it could be resurfaced.
He said: "NO way that thing is long gone"
At this point my heart dropped knowing I would have to spend $400 (that I don't have) for a new flywheel. He Then told me to wait a moment and off eh went into his parts room he emerged a few minutes later a excellent good used spare flywheel that he just happen to have. (these flywheels aren't easy to come by)

I was glad I took a drive over to his place, for other items not expecting to do anything about my flywheel. He has came through time and time again definitely on my
"Best people/shop list"


I will post a picture tomorrow of the flywheels side by side
as well as photos of the build

So far so good

No photos of the Tranny work today

Other than it was inspected .....



What I did get done was
Sandblasting the Transmission mount
gonna paint them shortly

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/ab2d5dd3.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/795de6f8.jpg



and a BIG surprise

Clint at Rebel Racing Sent over a set of
Bilstein Rear Sport shocks

And some of his Newest Engine Transmission mounts


Check out the eye candy
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/586c4305.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/40231635.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/d1fa655a.jpg

these will go nicely with the engine install


The more I look at the car the more projects I see

SS Brake lines from Rebel racing
New Rear Rotors
New rear brake pads
New E-brake shoes
Fuel filter change (might as well)
Bushing for the sway bar
Drop links (mine are cracking)


Oh yeah a Duck tail! I got this from a Fellow Pelican member who said he purchased it from TRE The quality looks really good but it's a bit heavy compare to my other Duck tails

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/937e3a5e.jpg
Its not bolted on just hanging

Transmission was finished today!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/d2800c14.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/b01aa4f4.jpg
I will update some more photos later

Items that needed replacing
Shifter Sleeve
Guide Sleeve
Shifting gear
Reverse Idler
1st Synchro Hub
(3) Synchros
Barricade
Stone
Stop

and a few other bits

no to mention a full gasket kit.


I didn't go as far as installig my Factory oil cooler kit yet
I will do that the next time when I install a LSD and replace 2nd gear


I did remove the intake manifold boot
It looked like it had holes but actually didn't
I will be replacing it in the near future I found it new for $65
While I removed the manifold boot I cleaned the inside of the AFM as well as the manifold butterfly it self.




but now I have a much Bigger list to do:

I purchased a few more items for my project:

915 Shifter Bushing (white cup)
Through out bearing kit
Flywheel bolts
Pressure plate bolts
FR5DTC Super Bosch Spark plugs for the Euro engine
Fuel filter



Projects to d:
DONE Repack Axles
DONE Scotch bright flywheel
DONEAdd Rebel Racing engine mounts
DONE Modify current Cabriolet mount project----> http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/695601-can-i-modify-3-2-carrera-cabriolet-engine-mount-solid-type.html

Cut Air box to Cup/Porsche motorsport Specs
Repaint transmission mount

and who knows what else

wish me luck

The drive train is about to go in!


Tonight would have been the night it went in, but due to other projects that didn't happen.


I manage to:

1. install new Spark plugs (old ones didn't look too bad)
2. Modify Cabriolet engine mount
3. Clean, Sand/Grind Flywheel and Pressure plate
4. Install new through out bearing kit
5. Bolt on transmission to Engine

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/6bf1f855.jpg

Cabrio Engine mount before
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/1c4a11f7.jpg
Cabrio engine mount after

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/c7cacb70.jpg


This is the T/O bearing being removed...
Turns out the previous mechanic who I paid to do the work while I was off doing something else installed the bearing wrong ...pretty much destroying the bearing after 1000 miles or less

The new one went in Great!


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/e0d709f9.jpg
This was like the Scene where Pacman meets Miss Pacman
the starter was test fitted but will be replaced with a newer one


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/d3873742.jpg






More Cleaning will soon follow as well as further inspections
I will be replacing more Lines and questionable items

I wish I could have just take apart the complete intake and cleaned it to look brand spankin new....but not enough time this round
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/fb48ab03.jpg


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/2247da75.jpg


So further inspection let me to this Spark plug car!!!
I had just replaced this cap 1000 miles or so
It was brand new with a rotor, I couldn't believe it
Obviously trash now

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/a3864ce1.jpg



So the list of projects continues:


DONE Modify Air box to Porsche Motor sport specs
DONE Add new Rotor and Cap
(change of plans) Replace starter (for fun ?)
DONE Add Rebel racing engine/transmission mounts
DONE Add Carrera Exhaust
DONE Replace Fuel Filter
DONE Replace Rear shocks
DONE Repack Axles

Who knows what else I'm going to find before I have to bolt in the engine. I really wish I didn't sell my Carrera Oil tank I need one now


The thing is this isn't a restoration project but rather trying to get the car back together as quickly as possible so I can drive it....Currently my daily drive. Borrowing cars, getting dropped off and riding my motorcycle is not my Idea of a fun time.

I'm gathering as much information and possible so I can
do more engine replacement parts the next time around when I do my LSD and light weight flywheel.



Any suggestions or Tips before I bolt it back on would be great SmileWavy

I don't see it in your photo, so I suggest picking up a distributor dust shield. It would help keep crap out of the distributor springs and flyweights.
P/N 930-602-909-00
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...ion/9-1-10.jpg

I would recommend checking for play in the distributor shaft. It could have worn bushings or a missing phenolic washer. Also make sure the weights are moving freely. DME controls timing, but it still uses weights and springs for the rotor phasing.

GTC YES! you are right, I don't have that part in my Distributor
Thank you for the tip, I would have over looked it.

I already have it on my parts order list.

I was messing with the distributor after you mentioned this.
Not sure I noticed any play, I mean it does move a hair but nothing that Isn't out of hand. They weights seems to move freely .. a little rusty dirty but other wise ok...

I will update with photos and or maybe a lil video




Todays Update:

Not too much got done, I ran out of time and had to call it a early night
Booooooooooo




Project #1
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/1e7c2719.jpg
I did mask the Airbox lid and cut the whole side face off!
Forgot to take a pic of the "After" more to come... Good stuff
I'm betting the sound of the engine will be awesome... I was told this is good for 4-5hp or so....sounds bogus to me..but I guess when you combine it with other stuff like exhaust mods...ect a little here a little there... I mean why else would shops like Andial/Porsche Motorsport NA
do it ?



Project #2
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/468d1a1b.jpg


The next project was pretty easy
I swapped out my factory engine mounts for
Rebel Racing engine mounts... A few longer bolts made all the difference
Lil Cad platting doesn't hurt either
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/fc76417a.jpg


Project #3
Last project of the day wasn't even complete, due to running out of time.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...C/a1e43196.jpg
I managed to remove the rear passenger side Bilstein Sport Shock
and installed the new Shocks that were Supplied from Rebel Racing...
This was pretty easy

Allen tool to hold it 17mm ratchet wrench to remove and a 22mm break bar/ ratchet. I will do the other side shortly

Photos of the shocks installed are coming




So not much got done today but looking forward to finishing the project...
yet I found more stuff to do today!!! ughh my list keeps growing

Finally Monday brought more work over to my SC

Worked from 6 to 11pm with a little pizza break in between


I finished installing the new rear Bilstein Sport shocks,
I was told my old shocks looked like and felt like they were still good.
Previous owner told me he had just replaced them...should have believed him !

Replaced the Fuel Filter
Replaced the Oil filter
both Mahle

Added fluid to the transmission
did not go with Swepco (even though I had an extra bottle)
instead I used Coastal 75/90 it came highly recommended by my mechanic friend who helped me with the transmission rebuild he has won many races with it and swears by it. He said he would kick my ass if he found swepco in my trans again.

Installed the pretty Rebel Racing transmission mounts to the freshly painted
Transmission metal cross member mount

Once again I had some trouble installing the Rebel Racing trans mounts
They really require bigger bolts other wise they will not thread all the way.
This is something pretty obvious when looking at OEM mounts.

A few quick bolts solved that problem.

<center>
</center>