Need advice on replacing 3.2 fuel lines

[andyt11]

See post #51 for a summary of this project


I own a stock 3.2 1988 911. I'm pretty handy but have never had to deal with fuel lines before. I'm going to replace the fuel lines on this car this winter and I need some advice before I begin.....

So this is a conversation from 2007, when the previous owner decided to replace all the fuel lines. Notice how the new ones (the ones still fitted to the car) have very long metal sleeves at the fittings...

Help with fuel hose removal 3.2

This is a thread documenting when one of the fuel line fittings failed in March of 2010, about 5 months before I bought the car. Seems those metal fittings are not very good.

New fuel hose busted-fire narrowly averted

Since then, I had the engine out for a reasonabley comprehensive rebuild, and the one regret I have is that I didn't do enough reading about fuel lines. It wasnt even a corner cut, I just didnt consider it, I guess I had other things to think about at the time. Now I sincerly wish I had changed them all out when it was easy. Looking back at the photos I took of the engine during disassemley, some of the fuel fittings are questionable. They are too long and are biting into the hose. And of course now I have done a bunch of reading on this topic!

So - the questions....

1. I understand there are places that will rebuild fuel lines in every town, and that I could take my old lines along and have them orientate the fittings correctly. However it seems to be the case that I would need to have my original fittings available for reuse. I don't want to reuse mine, I want the original, shorter flared type, so what fittings do I need to get hold of and where from? (Please explain exactly, I've never had to deal with fuel lines - hence not having the brains to deal with this when the engine was out). If I can pick up some OEM fittings I can take my lines to a shop and have them make a new set to match.
   
2. Also, has anyone reinstalled an OEM rigid metal T line with the engine in the car. Seems doable to me but I havnt seen anyone yet confirm it being possible. I'm going to try and remove mine in one piece. If it comes out, it should go back in.
   
3. If this is not possible, is there a downside to rebuilding it as a flex hose all the way through between the manifolds instead of the OEM rigid style? Think it would eventually wear or get too hot etc etc.....?

[plumb4u2]

your OEM fittings are fine its the style crimp the shop used....at least thats what i take from reading those threads

[andyt11]

So you think I could take my fuel lines to a shop and have them rebuilt with new hose and shorter crimps?

[andyt11]

Just to make it quicker for those just coming to this thread, this is the type of crimp on my car. Just 4 years old and one failed.



I beleive the crimps should be shorter like these.....



Whats the spec on the correct crimp? If i knew that I could source some, and then assuming I get them off the car in one piece i can rebuild OEM style.

[plumb4u2]

i know nothing about replacing these fuel lines but if i where you i would take the two pics to a local shop and ask there advise

in the second thread there was a pelican that was making braided hose replacements...maybe PM him

[andyt11]

I did enquire with him but they are rather pricey and I'm not sure about having a flex hose through the middle of the intake vs the rigid. I'm sure they are excellent quality though.

I'm going to make some enquiries in town about rebuilding these locally. If I can save some money, i'll be able to put that loot towards an exhaust!

Anyone got any thoughts on points 2 and 3 in my first post?

Thanks for the help so far, I had no idea the crimps are separate, could be as easy as new hose and shorter flares.

[steely]

I did the flex with AN fittings using this as a guide (2 yrs ago). hth

Fuel Line Replacement

there are other examples elsewhere in this forum too.

[Revvin 911S]

Originally Posted by andyt11

[*]Also, has anyone reinstalled an OEM rigid metal T line with the engine in the car. Seems doable to me but I haven't seen anyone yet confirm it being possible. I'm going to try and remove mine in one piece. If it comes out, it should go back in.

[/LIST]

It is possible, I did it on my car with the engine still in and wished I had dropped the motor to do it. Even with the entire intake system removed it is still a pain to get to everything you need to get to with the engine still in the car. If I had to do it again I would absolutely drop the engine. I had the same logic as you, take it out in one piece and if it comes out it should go back in. We should all know better than that, it is a 911 after all, nothing is ever that easy Drop the engine and give yourself room to get to everything, you will be happy you did so.

[andyt11]

Last time I removed the engine (last winter) it too two evenings and a Saturday to get it on the ground. Now that we have a little experience, and since the fasteners were all put in 6 month ago with anti-seize, I wonder if you are right.

You really think dropping it out is the way to go?

[DRACO A5OG]

Find a Industrial Warehouse are that lot of SemiTrucks are and you may find a Hose Company like I did.

Take your hoses to them and they cut to size and machine press new crimps on your OEM fitments just make certain any angles of the fitments are correct before swapping.

I did my buddy's 87 fuel line using the OEM fitment and New Machine pressed crimps and while I was at it also did my Driver side AC line with OEM fitment with new crimp. CHEAP. His was $10 and mine was $25USD.

[hcoles]

try searching on Bill Hippy and Florida, I forget the company name, there is at least one thread on here about this. I ordered a redo of my hoses from Bill.

Started with this......




came back like....the mounting points worked with no braid touching other parts

[andyt11]

yeah I read that thread. Sending them to the states for a rebuild is a safe second option. Bill does have a good reputation and if I remember rightly will do the whole lot for less than $200.

- did you get this in without dropping the engine...?!!

I'm dropping mine tonight if no one tells me not too!

[hcoles]

people mention it is possible without dropping but I dropped to do it along with other projects, e.g. adding my clutch pivot shaft bushing invention

[hcoles]

when/if you have Bill do it, may I suggest you only talk with him on the phone. When you get the parts back please post here, there are some tips I can offer

[bcheney]

The name of the company Bill Hippie works for is Amazon Hose out of Tampa Florida. 813 223 7554. He is awesome to work with. He really cares about getting things right. The work they turn out is top notch. Just had them do a main engine fuel line for my 89 Targa and it worked out great. Quick turnaround and great price. The removal and installation take a lot of patience. If you arent rushed and love working on cars....you'll be fine. took me about three hours to get it out and about 2 hours to put it back together. I'm sure it can go faster...but that's just how it went for me.

[andyt11]

Well we opted to see what we could do with the engine in the car. We made reasonable progress too. Got the top of the engine cleared out to make some space.....


and then managed to get the pressure reg and the line that runs across the rear of the engine free. I'm glad I did. They are already starting to fail. One end is cracked and the other looks like its working its way out....



I can see no way to remove the long T line in one piece unless I want to remove the left side of the intake which I have to think is a major ball ache.

Assuming that is the case, (and correct me if its easy to remove the manifold) I now have three questions...

1. Are most happy with the flexible stainless braided option that is available out there.
   
2. In post 14 of this thread...Help with fuel hose removal 3.2, where the previous owner got these lines back from the hose maker, he mentions that new fittings were brazed on to the original fittings. Is this true (I see no evidence), and does this prevent me any issues when i get them rebuilt again?
   
3. what sort of cutting tool can cut that hard line in the limited space I have available to me.
   

Any thoughts appreciated.

[hcoles]

1 - don't know all I've tried is Amazon hose, FL
2 - the brazed on parts will stay if you need to rebuild again, that's a guess, I would have to go look - I expect I'll be dead when they need rebuilding again.
3 - hack saw blade should work

[bcheney]

Here are links to what I think are the best posts on this topic. I followed their info and was able to R&R the lines without taking the engine out. You need some skill and patience...But, in the end you'll be happy and find the job rewarding. Pay attention to all the photos and instruction...You will "need" a "short" 19mm open end wrench to loosen the driver’s side fitting of the fuel line. I picked one up at True Value.

Detailed instructions

Notorious Carrera 3.2L rear fuel line leak revisited (long)

This post gives you excellent views of all lines and where they connect. A great perspective to those who haven't done this as many areas are very hard to see with the engine in the car. Once you view...you'll be prepared for the blind spots:

Fuel lines sent to Amazon Hose Tampa for rebuild

[millarg]

Subscribing

[andyt11]

thanks for the links bcheney, I've read all of those - good info.

Tonight I'm going to try again to remove the hard metal line. There are a handful of people who think i can be done. I'm not so sure. I'd really like to get it out in one piece so it can be rebuilt per the original design, but if I fail I'm on the fence whether I'll remove the intake or concede that I have to replace this with a flex hose.

Not much info on wheter there is a down side to the flex hose or not either. Apart from chaffing on things (which can be dealt with) are there any other downsides? Why did porsche use a hard line?

On that note, why did they bring it in from behind like that?!! Why didnt they go straight from the filter to the Tee at the front of the manifold?! (now theres an idea!)