Very early 911S numbers, 1966

[GIBSON]

I've been in touch with a guy who thinks he's found an early (1966) 911S. His chassis number is 304067. This does not show up in my books as an S, does anybody have info that would help decide? I'll have the engine number later today. The car has
the "slant" script on the decklid including the "S". It has a wood dash, I thought all S cars that early had a basketweave dash.
Any ideas?

Bruce Herrmann
73911S

[Early_S_Man]

Bruce,

The first production 911S models began in August, 1966, but I suppose a prototype for testing would have had earlier chassis numbers.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[Randy W]

Interesting #, certainly predates 67 model year and later than 65 (as you know 66 body #s were different, 90****). I have heard of a similar car. As you probably know, the first year production 911Ss (1967) have an "S" at the end of the body number. The cardex or other factory documentation would be helpful to verify if this really is a very early S. Good luck!

Randy Wells

[pwd72s]

A little Porsche secret...in the early years, they didn't sell the then new 911 models as well as they'd like. There were "left over" 1966 models that were turned into "S" models by the factory, then sold. Randy Wells is right, there should be an "S" stamped after the VIN if it's one of these cars...I suppose you could call these cars semi S models? But...if you're onto one of these, look for an S stamped in after the 1966 VIN#. How many of these were done remains a bit of a mystery...

[Early_S_Man]

Ask the guy to check for vented brake rotors and factory original F & R anti-roll bars, and 'S' type heat exchangers. Regular 911 production models didn't get the 'S' heat exchangers in '66 production. Of course all could have been 'backdated' by a creative owner ... but, then a missing 'S' on the VIN doesn't rule out a production line MISTAKE ... kind of like misprinted stamps! But, a 911S leaving the factory with solid disks or 'log-type' heat exhangers is highly unlikely!!!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[GIBSON]

Good points, I did ask the guy to look at the front rotors and I believe there should be a spacer between the caliper halves to accomodate the wider vented rotors. I forgot about the heat exchangers, I'll ask him to check that. All of these items could have been changed as Warren said.
Did the 66 cars have a front vin plate riveted to the crossmember like later cars? If so, it should have an S designation in it as well.
I'm not that interested in another car at the moment but if it is a real S, I thought someone on the board may want it. It is supposed to have 55K original miles. If I remember correctly he said the paint code was 6606, I'll check on that. The car is for sale. It's been stored for quite a few years so it will need some basic maintenance.
I think I'll follow up as it could be an interesting car.
Bruce

[Early_S_Man]

Oh yes, one final detail ... all early 911S had the red/orange Koni struts and shocks as standard equipment!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[epbrown]

Well, I've got the Red Book here, and it doesn't show any VINs with 304xxx numbers. It lists 300001-303390 for 1964 through 1965, a jump to 903551-907000 for the '66 model year, and 305101-308522 for 1967 coupe. The S coupes were 305101S-308523S (there was overlap between the two); all of the Targas start with 5.

As for the paint code, have a look as pwd72s' car, which is the same shade, iirc, and still original - 6606 is Irish Green.

Emanuel

Emanuel

[GIBSON]

More history from the owner (3rd according to him, car started out life in Northern New Jersey, owner was an SCCA member). The engine number is *907291*. It has a drivers side Recaro (what type I don't know). It's been in a garage since '67, the engine has not started in 30 years but spins.
I'm just getting curious about what this thing really is. I once had an early 911, serial number 302060, it was registered as a 65. This thing is not that far from that one in chassis numbers. The owner states that the "nomencalture plate" in the front states "Type 911 S 66". Will post photos as soon as I get them.

Bruce

[epbrown]

This is looking more and more like the badging was added to the car. The engine number is for a plain old ordinary 1966 coupe - the S cars started with 96****.

The absence of the S on the chassis serial number and this leads me to guess that the chassis number has a typo: I'd say the car is 904067 with engine 907291, making it a 1966 Irish Green 911 coupe. Swapping 9 or 6 for 3 is a common typo and the 904067 number would make sense as it falls in the valid range of numbers.

Emanuel

[GIBSON]

Emanuel, I agree with your conslusion and told the guy that 3 days ago, he's just convinced he's got "prototype" S. He did send for the Cardex last week so that should help. I think it's a re-badged plain 911 but would love to be wrong. I'll keep you posted as more info appears.

Bruce

[GIBSON]

I finally got some photos, I'll post two here, more later if they will help.
This first one:
IMG SRC="http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/671.jpg
shows the slant script with the s below it, I've never seen that before.
Here's the identification badge:
IMG SRC="http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/677.jpg
I'll post more later, this is an interesting car but probably not an S, too many problems.

Bruce Herrmann

[GIBSON]

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/671.jpg


http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/677.jpg

[65-911]

To make this thread even more interesting...

I think my 65 911 also says " type 911 S 66 "
the VIN is 30357

It did come with the nonvented disc brakes front and back.

I will double check tonight in case I am wrong..

Bruce, where is the car located at and what is he asking for it?

I always wondered why there was aan S and a 66...

Thanks
Bruce

[Early_S_Man]

That guy must be delusional! If he was really convinced, he would have cleaned up the fuel system and get the car running! Sounds more like just another con man, to me!

If it were truly a prototype, it would have a 7300 rpm redline on the tach. ... and an engine that pushes that car to 140 mph, something no ordinary '66 911 engine can do!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[GIBSON]

This car is on the east coast, New Jersey I think. Final price will be decided when he is convinced that the car is not an S, as I believe. I'd be interested in your info from the 65 as it might clear things up.
I'll post the selling price and give contact info as soon as he gives me a price. I'm on the west coast and really can't do anything about it. I have 6 more photos if anybody is interested. Maybe I'll post some small ones so as not to take up too much of Pelicans space.

Bruce Herrmann

[GIBSON]

Here's a view of the rear of the car showing the script. As I looked at it I remembered where I've seen that S script. It looks like the S from an old Super Ninety- anybody else agree? Maybe in an effort to make an old 911 into an S, somebody found the old 356 script an used that. It's creative, I'll give them that.
Warren, the guy offering the car is just buying it and wants it to be an S. He wants to turn it around and had offered it to me.
He has yet to name a price but I think will soon realize he has a 1966 911, not an S.
IMG SRC="http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/678.jpg"

[GIBSON]

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/678.jpg

[Soterik]

Regarding the ID plate and "type 911 66S".

This is a standard feature on early 911's on the ID plate. Note that it is "cast" in the ID plate rather than stamped, like the part number.

For those of you who are PCA members and get Panorama, take a look a the recent (last month or two or three) one with the Tangerine RSR on the cover. Go to the article on the RSR (all original car), and there is a close of of the ID plate with "type 911 66S" cast right into the plate.

regards,
Eric

[GIBSON]

Thanks Eric, I thought I remembered my 65 having the same numbering sequence. That should clear up the situation. This is a 66 911 with a new owner who wants it to be an S.

Bruce Herrmann