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Poll: 6-Point Race or 4-Point ASM for 80% Street-20% Track
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6-Point Race or 4-Point ASM for 80% Street-20% Track

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911 911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
a 3 point is much safer on the street and a lot easer to put on and off several times a day, even the 4 point is a pain after the 3rd time putting it on and off just for smokes and cheeseburgers (racers breakfast). 5-6 point for the track.

here is my dilemma, if i put a 4 point in my car, i need a roll bar or good hard points, if i do that, a great seat is in order, if i do that, then go with the 5-6 point, if i do that i want a helmet to protect my noggen from damage, if i do that i need a hanns device to keep me from breaking my neck. ahhhhhhhh. if i do nothing but the 3 point, everything is good but i slide all over the seat. it's all or nothing.
Many years late to this thread, but I found it interesting because I am considering these belts for my 993's autocrossing and the occasional Driver's Ed events sometime later this year or in 2021.

When I used to track my car with the POC many years ago, I installed a DAS rollbar, 2 Sparco Evo seats & 2 Schroth 5-pts. As James already alluded to, going this route can be a slippery slope that can add up $$$$ quickly.

Due to their design (i.e. ASM feature), I like the fact that I can use the Schroth 4-PT Profi II/III ASM with my stock seats.

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Rich Mitsuda

1996 993 C4S - PSS9s, RSRs, M030 Sways.
2016 Audi allroad
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Last edited by 911; 07-06-2020 at 01:32 PM..
Old 07-06-2020, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig T View Post


Craig - love the pic of your garage. Nice Viper Green 911, too, along with the POC license plates on the wall, especially the V3 one!
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Rich Mitsuda

1996 993 C4S - PSS9s, RSRs, M030 Sways.
2016 Audi allroad
2005 MINI Cooper S
Old 07-06-2020, 11:07 AM
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Every 2 years I go through a professional safety symposium. This info I gladly pass on to Porsche club participants, so I'll let you know what I've learned. 4-POINT HARNESSES KILL PEOPLE!. 3-point harnesses are safer than 4-point. There are MANY examples. Just a couple of years ago there was a double fatality at Chuckawalla, both victims were in 4-point. 5 or 6 point ONLY. Many belt companies don't even make 4-point for this reason. 4-points are for posers, and car shows. NASCAR runs 7 point, F1, 7 or 8 point!
And last, remember that to the letter of the law, as safe as they are, race belts are NOT STREET LEGAL. FIA,SFI,but not DOT.
My 2cents!
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:08 PM
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And also as previously mentioned, some clubs,PCA San Diego for example,do not allow double shoulder harnesses unless they pass through the seat hole/slots. If not at a track event, one of the old tricks is to mount the left shoulder strap on the right, and right on the left, then cross them behind the seat. This will keep the belts from slipping off your shoulders.
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:14 PM
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IOW, do not use shoulder harnesses without a sub belt. Factory 3-point passenger seat belts allow the upper body to bend at the waist in a frontal collision. This prevents the body from submarining under the lap belt. OTOH, 4-pt. belts provide that exact path. There are NHTSA videos that show the trajectory of crash dummies in a frontal collision. Pretty graphic.

Sherwood
Old 07-06-2020, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bixen View Post
Every 2 years I go through a professional safety symposium. This info I gladly pass on to Porsche club participants, so I'll let you know what I've learned. 4-POINT HARNESSES KILL PEOPLE!. 3-point harnesses are safer than 4-point. There are MANY examples. Just a couple of years ago there was a double fatality at Chuckawalla, both victims were in 4-point. 5 or 6 point ONLY. Many belt companies don't even make 4-point for this reason. 4-points are for posers, and car shows. NASCAR runs 7 point, F1, 7 or 8 point!
And last, remember that to the letter of the law, as safe as they are, race belts are NOT STREET LEGAL. FIA,SFI,but not DOT.
My 2cents!
I am no expert in this case, but there may be differences. Check Schroth page regarding ASM (wich avoids submarining or what it's called):

https://www.schroth.com/en/segments/tuning/service/technologie-tech-tip/schroth-asm.html

They can't be that bad, they are approved ABE, means street legal and requires all needes aspects for satety etc...
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:40 PM
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Still not convinced. I know what I know. I'm semi-convinced, but I wouldn't want to test their theory.
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Last edited by Marc Bixen; 07-06-2020 at 01:27 PM..
Old 07-06-2020, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bixen View Post
Every 2 years I go through a professional safety symposium. This info I gladly pass on to Porsche club participants, so I'll let you know what I've learned. 4-POINT HARNESSES KILL PEOPLE!. 3-point harnesses are safer than 4-point. There are MANY examples. Just a couple of years ago there was a double fatality at Chuckawalla, both victims were in 4-point. 5 or 6 point ONLY. Many belt companies don't even make 4-point for this reason. 4-points are for posers, and car shows. NASCAR runs 7 point, F1, 7 or 8 point!
And last, remember that to the letter of the law, as safe as they are, race belts are NOT STREET LEGAL. FIA,SFI,but not DOT.
My 2cents!
Thank you for your feedback and info, Marc.
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Rich Mitsuda

1996 993 C4S - PSS9s, RSRs, M030 Sways.
2016 Audi allroad
2005 MINI Cooper S
Old 07-06-2020, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proffighter View Post
I am no expert in this case, but there may be differences. Check Schroth page regarding ASM (wich avoids submarining or what it's called):

https://www.schroth.com/en/segments/tuning/service/technologie-tech-tip/schroth-asm.html

They can't be that bad, they are approved ABE, means street legal and requires all needes aspects for satety etc...
Thanks, Roland. This is what I researched when I was initially considering this particular harness. I believe it's also DOT approved, as well.
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Rich Mitsuda

1996 993 C4S - PSS9s, RSRs, M030 Sways.
2016 Audi allroad
2005 MINI Cooper S
Old 07-06-2020, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Bixen View Post
Still not convinced. I know what I know. I'm semi-convinced, but I wouldn't want to test their theory.
Solid points taken, Marc. Thanks.
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Rich Mitsuda

1996 993 C4S - PSS9s, RSRs, M030 Sways.
2016 Audi allroad
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:28 PM
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A lengthy, but informative video on 4-pt harnesses.

https://youtu.be/0KBqW8GgLW4

Long story short, track regs. require at least 5 pt. harnesses.

The only DOT approved 4 pt harness are ones made by Shroth and Takata. There's a reason.

There are insurance implications using non-DOT approved and mandated safety equipment.

Sherwood
Old 07-09-2020, 07:43 PM
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Install the 6-points as they provide no question with safety for the track.

RETAIN and use stock belts for street driving.

Many street track people do this, unless you plan on wearing a hans-device on the street
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:12 AM
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I was an early adopter with the Schroth ASM system way back in the late 80's/early 90's. The cars were a first gen VW GTi (loved that car for the short time I had it) and my first Porsche-- a 944.

Great product that met my needs at the time. If I had technical/safety questions about Schroth ASM, I might try to connect with the folks at HMS Motorsports. They are or used to be the US importer for Schroth. I started interacting with them more than 20 years ago and I think made my first purchases from them more than 20 years ago.

One of the best contacts that may still be there is Joe Marko. I found him to be extremely knowledgeable and experienced. A great resource. So I suggest considering contacting HMS with questions, and if Joe is still there attempting to connect with him for some informed perspective.
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 911SauCy View Post
Install the 6-points as they provide no question with safety for the track.

RETAIN and use stock belts for street driving.

Many street track people do this, unless you plan on wearing a hans-device on the street
I did this on my Ď82 as I drive it to the track. Works pretty good. Sometimes a little confusing when belting up at the track but thatís likely more of an operator defect.
Old 07-14-2020, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSpool87 View Post
I did this on my Ď82 as I drive it to the track. Works pretty good. Sometimes a little confusing when belting up at the track but thatís likely more of an operator defect.
LOL!

It really is the safest way to go, for both applications

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Old 07-14-2020, 11:03 AM
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