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The Dude abides...
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I'm screwed...surprise during 1st valve job
Well my routine weekend valve job plans have been modified, and not by a 'little bit'.
I thought it was bad enough that all but one of the valve cover studs were backing out along with the rusted-on nuts, even though I soaked them with PB Blaster overnight! Little did I know, that was a prelude to what I would find under the driver side, lower valve cover!   It's never a good thing when parts begin falling out of the engine upon removal of a valve cover...But then I discovered that it's worse than I originally thought...there are two more, also sheared clean off, still sitting in their stud holes...   Here they are removed and placed side by side.   First, what am I looking at here. There are four of these bolts in total, a pair between cylinder 1 and 2, and a second pair between cylinder 2 and 3. Three of the four have been flappin' in the breeze for God knows how long. Second, why does there seem to be no adverse effect on the engine? I mean, no significant oil leaks, that is to say, absolutely no oil spots on the garage floor. No loss in compression, at least, not that's discernible to me. Third, how bad is it?! Am I looking at something that can be rectified without an engine removal? I am really bummed and it would appear that I'll not be driving her for an extended period of time...
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Steve '03 Carrera 4S |
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07-06-2012, 04:12 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 1,493
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those are the infamous broken head studs. tons of threads. most say with that many (especially two next to each other) you need to replace them all before serious damage happens.
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1982 911SC, Mocal oil cooler, Bilsteins, Carrera tensioners, backdated heat, factory short shift, Seine gate shift, turbo tie rods, pop off. 2005 Mercedes-Benz C230 kompressor sport 6-speed (daily driver) |
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07-06-2012, 04:24 AM
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Broken Dilivar (most likely) head studs, quite common. There's no way around it the engine must come out and all the lower studs should be replaced. I use steel studs when I encounter this issue. It's amazing the car runs okay and doesn't leak.
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1974 sahara beige 911 targa 1982 chiffon 911sc 1985 prussian blue metallic carrera |
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07-06-2012, 04:25 AM
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The Dude abides...
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Head studs? Really?
That was my original thought, but then in researching I read that there are 24 head studs and I only see 'four' of these type on my engine...on the driver side anyway... Where are the remaining head studs that bring the number up to 24?
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Steve '03 Carrera 4S |
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07-06-2012, 04:31 AM
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The Dude abides...
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...never mind my last post, forgot to figure in the upper heads...dah!
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Steve '03 Carrera 4S |
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07-06-2012, 04:33 AM
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Look in with a flashlight there is four per cylinder you'll see them.
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1974 sahara beige 911 targa 1982 chiffon 911sc 1985 prussian blue metallic carrera |
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07-06-2012, 04:38 AM
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Friend of Warren
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 16,494
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Not the end of the world, but you will have to do an engine drop. Good time to perhaps do some top end work, clutch etc.
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Kurt V No more Porsches, but a revolving number of motorcycles. |
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07-06-2012, 04:42 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ky, USA
Posts: 1,128
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That blows. Sorry to see it on yours. I went through this way back in '98 with my '75 911. I did a total rebuild. Back then the best course of action was to Time-Cert the case and use Raceware studs. I havent had any problems since. Im not sure what the current best products are to use.
The heads are a one piece unit for the whole left or right bank of cylinders. Where as the cylinders are obviously separate. You can loose a few studs and still have the head unit holding all the cylinders down with the remaining studs. You can probably keep driving it for quite a while if you dont thrash it. After all, its been that way for quite some time probably. But it totally kills any resale value until fixed. . Last edited by 911_Dude; 07-06-2012 at 05:31 AM.. |
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07-06-2012, 04:44 AM
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River Rat
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1000 Islands NY
Posts: 404
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You're not screwed, this happens to most of us at one time or another. I replaced mine 3 years ago ... Engine out and you can reseal the engine while you're there. Of course, if you are unable to do this yourself you are going to spend some $$$.
This was my first time dropping a Porsche motor and most of the work was fairly strait forward. Setting the cam timing was the most difficult part and I paid my local Porsche mechanic to do a house call and verify my work before buttoning up the motor. I did not split the case. Take lots of pictures and label all parts using baggies when appropriate. 3 years later, all is good except for one small oil leak that I am able to live with. Purchasing these cars is the easy part, owning them long term is more involved than most cars.
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1986 930 - K27-7200, Andial Intercooler, Tial Wastegate, Electronic Boost Controller, B&B headers, Bodart Zork, Leask Adjustable WUR, Full Elephant Racing Suspension w/Adustable Spring Plates and Von Shocks, Wevo Transmission Mounts, Fuel Safe Fuel Cell, Forgelines (9"/11"), Hargett Shifter, Innovate AFR, Cobra CF Seats, DAS Rollbar, Coleman Floating Rotors, Lightweight Interior, Forgeline 17" x 9"/11", 2800 lbs. |
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07-06-2012, 04:50 AM
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Alter Ego Racing
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,553
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Time to take advantage and do a refresh. BTW, been there with my 3 liter when I originally got it back in 1992.
Don't feel bad, when I opened the valve covers on a car I just bought I found a license plate light (from the same car!).
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International GT Champion; Porsche GT3 Cup Trophy Champion; Klub Sport Challenge Champion; Rolex Vintage Endurance Series Champion; PCA Club Racing Champion; National Vintage Racing Champion |
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07-06-2012, 05:06 AM
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A license plate light under the valve cover??? The PO must really have wanted to see what was going on in there!
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66 912 ... 2.7 conversion (What a blast!) 79 928 5-spd (sadly, sold) 85.5 944 5-spd (sadly, traded for 928) www.curtfranklincreative.com |
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07-06-2012, 06:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,151
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Quote:
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1986 3.2 Carrera |
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07-06-2012, 07:04 AM
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,189
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Quote:
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee. 
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07-06-2012, 07:15 AM
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ben- see 2nd paragraph of post 10... I was joking!
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66 912 ... 2.7 conversion (What a blast!) 79 928 5-spd (sadly, sold) 85.5 944 5-spd (sadly, traded for 928) www.curtfranklincreative.com |
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07-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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Ah yes, the broken head studs...Not fun. It's a great opportunity to spend 5-6 k.
If it's a stock motor, just use all steel studs. No need for ARP or a high dollar set if you're not making over 250 h.p. sorry to see, and yes I've been there...
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jtp911 |
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07-06-2012, 07:33 AM
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Location: Georgia
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Quote:
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1986 3.2 Carrera |
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07-06-2012, 07:36 AM
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Alter Ego Racing
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,553
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I have pics and the actual light at home still im sure. Needless to say I was speechless.
Things a PPI does not find.......
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International GT Champion; Porsche GT3 Cup Trophy Champion; Klub Sport Challenge Champion; Rolex Vintage Endurance Series Champion; PCA Club Racing Champion; National Vintage Racing Champion |
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07-06-2012, 07:44 AM
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,189
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Quote:
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee.
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07-06-2012, 07:53 AM
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You are misinformed.
The heads are not a one peice unit. They are seperate just like the cylinders. Driving this with two studs on a head broken will lead to damage. Quote:
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83 SC Targa -- 3.2SS, GT2-108 Dougherty Cams, 9.5:1 JE Pistons, Supertec Studs, PMO ITB's, MS2 EFI, SSI's, Recurved Dizzy, MSD, Backdated Dansk Sport Stainless 2 in 1 out, Elephant Polybronze, Turbo Tie Rods, Bilstein HD's, Hollow 21-27 TBs, Optima Redtop 34R, Griffiths-ZIMS AC, Seine Shifter, Elephant Racing Oil Cooling. Last edited by brads911sc; 07-06-2012 at 08:17 AM.. |
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07-06-2012, 08:15 AM
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Supertec studs are an alternative to ARP. Just as good and less costly in my opinion.
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83 SC Targa -- 3.2SS, GT2-108 Dougherty Cams, 9.5:1 JE Pistons, Supertec Studs, PMO ITB's, MS2 EFI, SSI's, Recurved Dizzy, MSD, Backdated Dansk Sport Stainless 2 in 1 out, Elephant Polybronze, Turbo Tie Rods, Bilstein HD's, Hollow 21-27 TBs, Optima Redtop 34R, Griffiths-ZIMS AC, Seine Shifter, Elephant Racing Oil Cooling. |
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07-06-2012, 08:16 AM
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'03 4S
1974 Porsche 911 targa 2.7
912-6
