3.2 valve guide wear worries (a bit long)

[bento]

I know a lot of us on the board have 3.2 cars and are concerned with premature valve guide wear. I wanted to share my recent experience for those who have top end jobs and rebuild on the mind. My car has 160K miles on it and hasn't had a top end job. when i bought the car, the compression was good and the car was drinking about a quart of oil every 700 miles or so. I knew that this was pretty close to the threshold (1/600miles) and that i would have to adress the problem at some point. Since then, I have fouled the #5 spark plug on two ocassions. Everyone out there has said that fouling spark plugs is the indicator that the problem is reaching terminal levels. Of course, i freaked out and thought about how much things would cost, whether or not i could re-ring the engine or if i would have to get a new rebuild, etc. My mechanic at the time did a service, threw in some new spark plugs and told me to continue to keep my eye on the oil consumption. The car lasted 6 months like this until recently when it fouled the #5 spark plug again. The same series of thoughts came to mind as the last time this happened and i quickly looked at my available funds and thought about the most pessimistic of scenarios. Just got done talking with the mechanic and while there is some play in the valves, he doesn't think that it's dangerously bad and that the car can continue to be driven for a good amount more before the inevitable work needs to be done. I wanted to throw this out there because I know with all of the various threads out there about 3.2 valves, rebuilds and Jack planting thoughts in our head about 3.6 swaps when your 3.2 needs work that i was certain that this would be the time, but alas, it luckily isn't. I'm not trying to suggest that the car can last forever without some major work, but it will be a bit more before my funds are significantly taxed. Now at least i have some time to prepare.

In addition, I'd really like to thank one of the board's many gurus, Clark aka Chuck Moreland, who not only allowed me to drive his car in order to check out his suspension set up, but also helped keep me from jumping off of a large building yesterday while i waited to pull the valve covers off and see what was going on.

Everyone: enjoy the ride, and remeber that when your worried about the ticking sound you may have heard, that you aren't being the consumate worrier, you're just passionate about your ride.

Regards,
David Benett
www.bentoracing.com

[89911]

Fouling plugs is the beginning of the end sorry to say. As far as the cost of a top end compared to a 3.6 transplant, not even close. The bottom end of these car will last 2-300,000 miles, once the guides and like are replaced, your good for the life of the car. Throw some Euro piston and cylinder heads in if you want to add some HP. It actually doesn't take much to get these engines close to the 250 hp a 3.6 has with a few other mods.

[don911]

I'm in the same boat. 194K and no top end yet. I haven't started fouling plugs yet....I think. Which leads me to my question. Will it be obvious when a plug fouls?

Also, I've been around 1qt/600 miles for over a year now. After my last valve adj., my oil consumption seems to be a little less. 1qt/7-900 miles...no idea why it's better but I'm not complaining.

Tell me more about 250 HP...I like the sounds of that.

[89911]

We are doing this as we speak on an 87 engine. Euro Pistons and cylinders, camshaft regrind, high performance valve springs, new valve guides, Extrudehone intake manifold, bored throttle body, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Remapped chip, SSI's, Dual in, dual out exhaust. We will know after a dyno, but are expecting no less then 250hp conservatively.

[john walker's workshop]

you can just assume that after 80K on a carrera, the guides are going to be kind of worn. after 130K, they're sloppy for sure. then the valve wobbles around and wears the hell out of the seat. the valve conducts most of it's heat thru the guide. it only happens on a small percentage of engines, but valve heads have been known to drop off and thoroughly trash the engine when they get too hot. how lucky do you feel? at 130K, they need a valve grind. many need it way before that. i've done them at 60K, because of a continuously fouling plug.

[Superman]

Okay, here is an opportunity to say something I intend to say anyway. John Walker is my kind of mechanic. I work pretty hard to keep my machines running in tip top shape. But that does not mean replacing all the parts every three months. I know we've gone over this before and I'm not trying to be mean to anyone, but some mechanics advise you replace all head studs with raceware or ARP. John has been building these engines since I was drawing them on my Pee Chee folders in grammar school, and he sees no reason not to use, or even re-use factory steel studs. In other words, John knows what these cars need, without guessing. He also knows what they do not need, and he does not recommend parts or labor that is not needed. Throughout my rebuild, he has consistently given me awesome advice and insight into what my engine does need, or might need.

Okay, having said that, John has insisted from the beginning that if I take my heads off to fix my broken stud, I should freshen the heads. By this, he means replacing exhaust valves and all valve guides, at a minimum. He has never hesitated on this. The head work has been the most expensive part of my (cheap-ass) rebuild, but I am absolutely confident that this work was necessary.

By contrast, he has told me of many things that either simply do not need to be replaced or checked, or perhaps some things that should be checked and probably not replaced. For example, when I decided that I would split my case, he got me the necessary parts but did not include the expensive crank nose-bearing. He explained to me why I should replace the main bearing shells which probably have the same clearance as when brand new. Apparently part of their job is to pick up pieces of hard debris, which beocme imbedded in them, as a way of saving the crank's bearing surfaces.

Okay, sorry for all the words. My point is that if JW says a Carrera should get new valve guides at 130K miles, then smart gamblers should place bets on that number, before the wheel spins. IMHO.

[Pasophisto]

mine's smoking like the devil at idle and it only has 80K on a beautifully kept example. So what gives? It only started smoking very recently.