Nasty highway patrolman, now I gotta pay...

[Moses]

Yesterday I was heading North on 680 about 5pm. 680 has a diamond lane in the far left that is reserved for carpoolers, busses, "alternate energy" vehicles, lesbians and whatever other behavior the great State of California wishes to encourage.

Anyway, I am in moderate/heavy traffic in the left lane (not the diamond lane) when a gravel truck pulls in front of me and is spraying my fresh paint with loose gravel. I cannot pull to the right, as there is a semi there. Well, I pull into the diamond lane and slow down, letting others pass, then I merge right. Now I see the familiar red flashers in my rearview- D' oh!

I was extremely courteous, and did not really expect to be ticketed. After it became clear that the ticket was mine, I politely asked the officer to tell me if the diamond lane was moving faster than the other lanes. he said "No." I asked him why he thought I would drive in the carpool lane if the other lanes were moving faster. He said "I have no idea." When I told him about the gravel truck, he seemed entirely unsympathetic. Oh, well.

Anyone else ever get one of these tickets? Is it a moving violation? Points against my license?

[cegerer]

I'm surprised Calif. doesn't mandate covers for gravel/sand haulers!!! Michigan does and it's one law that has actually improved my life on the road. -- Curt

[5axis]

I had a idea to get legislation passed in cali to make sand and gravel haulers cover their loads. Convince some tree hugging weenies that non-native sand and gravel is harmful to the local sand and gravel species. They must not be allowed to intermingle without the proper environmental impact studies.** There ya go, problem solved

[Fun911]

Those freken gravel trucks !!!! Empty or not they dump their crap all over the road....I can't tell you how many windshields I have replaced over the years because of them..I am becoming more angry as I write this..I am a police officer and I would have never wrote someone a ticket given the situation you just explained, especially another Porsche enthusiast. Let me guess, was it a CHP officer who wrote you this ticket. .? They would write their own mother a ticket……No offense fellow chippers..

Go to court and fight this ticket. I think the judge will understand. They have certainly excused lesser violations. And yes it counts as a point on your record..

About 15 years ago, A CHP officer wrote me a ticket for running a red light. Did I have a good excuse ? You betcha !!! I was driving a semi-truck and lost my brakes going down a hill. It took twenty-nine trees to stop the truck, but I lived through it with minor injuries. Can you guess next, the officer didn’t give a crap why I ran the light, but needed one more ticket for the day. Granted there are people out there who truly deserve tickets, but that’s why God gave us a brain to be FAIR and UNDERSTANDING…By the way, I fought it and won ….


Good luck fellow Pelican Head! E-mail me with any questions you might have…

Okay, I feel better now

[Wayne 962]

I'm sure it's not illegal to pull into another lane if there is a potentially hazardous condition that could cause an accident or property damage.

I would fight this ticket. If the officer shows up in court, you can ask him questions about the traffic conditions, etc. involving the ticket...

-Wayne

[Zeke]

Figure out who the sand and gravel truck is operated by. On your next commute, write down the info on all the trucks you see. Some how you might be able to place the right truck at the right time. One time deliveries are rare in the business and they have a pool to pay for damage, so blame it on the closest one if not the right one. Blame what? Why damage to your paint, of course. I'm sure your painter will give you an estimate for some touch up on stone chips. Use the truckers' money to pay the ticket.

BTW, WTF was the truck doing out in the left lane to start with? Did you ask that A$$ HOLE cop why he didn't pull the truck over for driving in the left lane instead of you for avoiding certain damage. And, yes, it is a law in CA that ALL loose material be covered and that nothing can escape the truck except water and chicken feathers. I'm dead serious.

[mwbaum]

A question for officers....when you are asked to sign the ticket...there is a carbon copy obviously that you receive and they keep the original. I am wondering if one wrote three or four words above the signature ie "was avoiding gravel truck" then when you contested the ticket if the officer "forgets" your explanation would it help your case to have that "reminder" in writing?

[Fun911]

It can only benefit you by taking notes or take it in by memory. The officers I work with and including myself write very detail notes after a citation is issued. So if and when I am subpoena to traffic court a few months down the road, I just refresh my memory from my notes. If you were a person who was truly deserving a ticket (*********, etc) I don’t usually read my notes only because of the good impressions they left me of themselves during the stop..

Not to long ago I stopped a person driving 95mph in a 45 mph zone. He was driving a rented 993 cab for his birthday. I will never forget the look of excitement on his face when I stopped him. I was smiling underneath my “what are you thinking look”. I was having flashbacks when I first drove a Porsche and yes I drove it the same way. I was about ready to kick him out of the car and start driving from there. Since it was 3:00 am in the morning and the only person he was going to kill was himself, I gave him a warning. I must admit guys I am a sucker for a person who is driving a Porsche.. I guess you can say, “I can see the light” . No pun intended J

[pbs911]

Unfortunatly, in CA driving in the diamond lane without the required number of passangers is a strict liability offense. The judge has no discretion in reducing the fine to less than that set by statute.

I would follow Wayne's argument that there was a hazard in the other road. Did the cop write that down? Next time he gives you the ticket to sign write the circumstances down on the ticket yourself. That way the copy given to the judge will show theevents that took place. Otherwise, it's the cops word you were in the car pool lane.

[Wayne 962]

Fun911 let me know when you're on duty and where...

If the cop can't remember the circumstances regarding the ticket, then you should have no problem arguing for it to be thrown out.

-Wayne

[MRM]

Yes, driving in the diamond lane is a strict liability offence. All they have to do is prove you were there, it doesn't matter how long or why. It is a moving offence and counts against insurance and our points at the same level as a basic speed charge.

That is the bad news. The good news is that you have a pretty good chance of convincing someone in the chain of command to reduce or dismiss the charge. He's how to do it:

The ticket will have information on it telling you how to pay or contest the ticket. Your first step is to follow the directions for contesting the ticket. Set the case down for a court trial. Most places make you see a hearing officer or make an initial appearance before letting you set a court trial. Set a court trial if you can, set a first appearance or make an appointment to see a hearing officer if you can't.

Also, the ticket should also tell you what municipality or county court you are being charged in. Each city or county has its own prosecutors. When you are setting the court trial or making arrangements for your first appearance, ask or call the clerkof court for the district that is identified on the ticket and ask which district attorney's office (county prosecutor) or city attorney (municipal prosecutor) will prosecute your ticket. Ask how to contact that office. They won't want to tell you, but be polite and persistent. Eventually someone will tell you.

If you have the case set for a first appearance or a meeting with a hearing officer, call the prosecutor's office and ask to speak to the prosecutor who is answering questions by phone that day. We used to call that position "officer of the day", other offices call it office duty, phone duty, or something similar. Once you get the city or county attorney on the line, tell him the story exactly as you said it here, and ask if their prosecution guidelines allow any leaway in situations like this. Make it clear you are not asking for a promise that you will get a certain outcome on your case, you are just finding out what that office's charging guidelines are. Despite conventional wisdom, many prosecutors and cops have both hearts and common sense. Some even have Porsches. The prosecutor will give you a clear answer, although not necessarily the one you are looking for, but I think the odds are pretty good.

What you want to find out is if given these circumstances whether the prosecutor or hearing officer who handles your case is likely to dismiss the ticket, not care what your excuse is and prosecute you whole hog, or offer something called a continuance for dismissal or continuance without a plea (CWOP). This where you pay a certain amount of money to the state, promise to not have any new violations in the next 6 months to year, and in return the case will be dismissed. The charge doesn't go on your record but you have to pay anywhere from half the scheduled fine to the whole thing as "prosecution costs".

Once you have the prosecution guidelines in hand, meet with the hearing officer or make your first appearance, explain yourself, and try to cut as good of or a better deal than the one you were told to expect.

If you can set your case down for a court trial, do so and wait until three or four days before the court trial and call the prosecutor's office and aske to speak to the person handling court trials the day you are scheduled. You may play phone tag for a while, but eventually you'll talk to him. Tell him your story and try to negotiate a dismissal or CWOP over the phone. The prosecutor might be sympathetic enough and happy to reduce the number of court trials he has to handle at one time to give you a break.

If nothing else works, show up for the court trial, hope the cop doesn't show and if he does, tell your story once again. If that prosecutor doesn't cut you a break, tell the judge that you are defending yourself based on a necessity defense. That is, that your safety required you to take the action you did. It's not a great defense, but it is recognized, and the judge just might cut you a break and find you not guilty. Of course, if the cop doesn't show your case gets dismissed.

As for the cop forgetting the circumstances of the ticket, that's not likely. Your ticket will have a couple of cryptic letters or notes on it somewere, something like "NB Dln 680 No spd vsl". The cop will look at the date of the ticket, your name the description of your car and will testify to the court that he was northbound on Interstate 65 when he saw a Porsche 911 traveling northbound in the diamond lane with only one occupant in it. The vehicle was not speeding and he visiually observed you. He pulled the vehicle over, identified the driver by his California drivers licence and it was you.

Good luck. Post again or email me if something doesn't work out as I have outlined.

[89Targa]

MRM,

Your suggestions are logic and well thought out, but this unfortunately is sunny California. A diamond lane ticket is like a light switch. Either you were in the lane or not. The courts have consistently been unwilling to listen to any explanation other than "medical emergeny".

[Bill Douglas]

Did you explain to him you are Moses from the Pelican Parts BBS

[Wayne 962]

Sounds like it's better to pay the fine and go to traffic school. Although $271 is a hunk of change that could be better spent at your favorite Bird-like Porsche parts house...

-Wayne

[makaio]

As a fellow ticket writer (even though it's only for fire and related stuff). I think you have a very strong case, and should fight it.

You were driving defensivelly, and avoided an accident.

Fight it!

[emcon5]

I don't know if it is the same all over CA, but I fought a ticket in Fremont a couple months ago, and there is no Prosecutor and the Judge is a comissioner. The Police officer essentially prosecutes the case.

I have a lawyer friend who I pimped for tips before my trial, and he said the only time there is a prosecutor present for a traffic ticket is if the defendant is an attorney, and then it is usually a law Student. He also said that his first trial was doing that when worked in the San Jose DA's office while he was in law school.

BTW, my defense strategy was "thinking happy thoughts about the cop not showing up". He showed up and I lost.

For what it's worth,

Tom

[Brian Cameron]

Perhaps you can convince the judge that you're a lesbian...

a diamond lane in the far left that is reserved for carpoolers, busses, "alternate energy" vehicles, lesbians and whatever other behavior the great State of California wishes to encourage

[Kurt B]

I just got a BS ticket like that a month ago.

I guess he couldn't find anything wrong, so he finally pulled me over.
I got off the freeway at haskell. It's a very sharp curve. it was night.
It ends in a stop sign. I stopped, looked both ways, then made my left hand turn.
Almost a mile away, on ventura AFTER I STOPPED FOR STOP LIGHT, I get pulled over. He asks if I know why he stopped me. i say I have no idea.
For not coming to a complete stop at the stop sign off the freeway.
Jesus, I have this car, and I'm not going to stop for a stop sign? I love this thing more than people love their children! What's more, I remember the sign and stopping to make a left hand turn.
Did I count for 2 seconds or something? No. I stopped briefly, maybe very briefly, saw no one and went on. i didn't just run right through it at all.
that kind of ticket (given by a 5' 7" blond homo with a crew cut btw) is a "f@ck it, I looks like this guy's driving like an old lady, I'll just pull him over for some stop sign he probably doesn't even remember"
This time, I'm irritated.

[TedSlick]

I too was busted in the Calif. carpool lane...on the Bay Bridge of all places. Got caught up in traffic on the extreme right lane and blew right thru the toll booth for free during morning rush hour . I explained to the officer that I was from so. Cal and did not realize a carpool vehicle must carry 3 passengers in no. Cal vs. two. In my case, after seeing my SD address, the officer bought the story and did not issue the $500+ ticket.

Definitely take your case to the judge. I understand that if the officer doesn't show up, there is a lack of prosecution and the citation will be dismissed.

For best getaway chances: Always kiss the officer's ass, don't argue, be calm, humble and apologetic. I'm 5 for 6 getting out of tickets by just playing dumb. The one I did get was when I made a challenge: "...but this car can't even go 96mph!"

[howie944]

About three weeks or so ago..I managed to get behind a gravel truck just after merging into traffic. This thing was literally spewing rocks like rain. I couldn't escape since left lane was full and ended up getting a pretty good pelting from the thing! Fortunately some good samaratin in the left lane saw my plight and could see all the rocks that were being heaved. He slowed down and flashed his lights to let me in (God bless him!). It was too late though I caught about three in the hood which up till then was chip free The rocks weren't coming from the bed of the truck but from the tires. Covering the load might help in some cases but I thought there was a law that they had to check thier tires for rocks after they left a construction site and before they hit the highway. For the first time in my life I wished there was a CHP following me so that when I pulled out he/she would be the one getting pelted. Unfortunately there were none to be seen!