Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7106342)

Yes.

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7106342)

I also firmly believe properly controlling the fans will alleviate the refrigerant leakage problem.

And FINALLY....there is NO problem with the evaporator, nor the evaporator fan.

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6 (Post 7113387)

LOL.

You "believe" it? As in, a faith-based understanding of something that has been solidly proven otherwise? By NUMEROUS sources? FAIL number one.

"..solidly proven otherwise?" "By NUMEROUS sources?"

Name a few FACTUALLY based sources...

Concession. Yes, both the factory fan and evaporator can and do benefit from more modern day improved product versions. But, even in TX, are those improvments necessary with the improved efficiency, even current (fan + condensor) aftermarket, of the condensing process..?

NOTE: ALL of the aftermarket vendors recommend improving condensing capability.

FAIL number two - the evap and evap fan are woefully under-performing in the stock form. How do we know this?

We know this for a fact because stuff like Procoolers work at all.

Big NEWS, pro-coolers only "work" once the inlet airflow is already reasonably cooled and "work" is left over in the evaporator "exhaust". Plus, the major cooling "gain" in an A/C system is via the phase change process. Once the refrigerant is re-liquefied there is very little "gain" in cooling it beyond that point.(***)

If you could get all the cooling capacity out of the evap, the Procooler would not produce any benefit at all.

Moving more air across a more efficient evaporator means that less energy is expended overall by the AC system.

"more efficient evaporator means less energy expended overall" New laws of physics, more WORK, less energy expended?

Your categorical statements supported by zero real data mean that you are just throwing out hypotheses to see what sticks. So far, nothing sticks, because you haven't thrown one out that does anything.

EXCEPT - you might get more air at idle speed with your fan setup. OK, that's fair. I will not block my engine cooling air inlet with some crap-@$$ fans to gain idle condenser air throughput.

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7106254)

Spal 12" dual 3168CFM >$345.00


Spal 12" Dual High Performance Cooling Fans (PAIR) w/ Shroud 3168CFM | eBay

http://www.spal-usa.com/fans/automated/tech_sheets/30102130.pdf

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7114425)

Okay, so as I said, we have now entered the argument for/against engine cooling effects of the fans.

So, just how much time, what %, does the average driver keep the engine above 5400 RPM wherein the fans might be a "drag"?

Then throw in the fact that below 5400 RPM the fans would provide an "assist" to the engine fan via "pressurizing" the engine compartment and what would be the "net" effect??

Many owners "here" seem to be addressing the issue of insufficient cooling in the low RPM ranges, no concern on the high end.

Originally Posted by kuehl (Post 7114770)

Yes, these particular Spal fans, as a set, will pump out in total 3168 cfm at "0" static.
But:
1) In front or behind a condenser its really about 2900 cfm (per Spal Tech Dept)
because the condenser is going to slow down the cfm flow to .2 static.

And by how much, what factor does the engine resistance to airflow "slow down" the engine fan driven airflow?

2) The amperage draw is going be closer to 45 amps (additional static plus true system voltage), you will need another alternator or your gonna beat the heck out of the electrical system.

That depends entirely on the dutycycle of the fans. The base idea is to get the evaporator core down to 33F ASAP and keep it there. Recognizing that 33F cannot likely be reached until the cabin reaches your comfort level. But once there the cycling of the compressor wil be less often and for shorter periods. And..just how much current does it take to run that front condenser blower, HIGHLY inefficient blower, open loop, (full time).

3) The thickness of these fans is 4", not easy to fit this under the condenser.

So you are suggesting $345.00 in cost (excluding relays, wires, fuses, labor) trying to improve the ac system

for mostly at idle situations

You seem to be fairly bright but yet you don't seem to get the point. To my knowledge, inclusive of reading thousands of "on-point" posts, no one seems to be complaining about marginal factory A/C operation while driving consistently "at speed"...??

while at the same time, when your doing most of your driving cruising, your hurting the deck lid condenser function by blocking air flow with fans.

Sorry I fail to understand. My cruising involves RPM ranges between 2300-3500. Based on your calculations the engine RPM must be above ~5400 to reach the point of fan "drag".

You are better off taking that money and investing in a better front condenser right here from our host for only $279.00

No, I would go with a condenser/fan wheel well combination if I had cause to move in that direction. Mildly surprised at your suggestion.

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Griffifhs BEST rating yet absolutely NO customer review.

Originally Posted by Scott R (Post 7115598)

48 AMP fan on a 55 AMP electrical system? I suppose that's fine if you leave the radio off, or the headlights while the AC is on. Well unless you enjoy replacing alternators.

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7115571)

I thought Kuehl ended up agreeing, by default, that my CFM "calculations" were spot on.

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7115665)

Fans are rated at 8 amps. 48 amps for 2 seems a bit of a stetch, probably half of that, 24A, worse case. Plus as engine RPM rises the load, back pressure, on the fans declines, seriously so.

Originally Posted by Scott R (Post 7116565)

That's still a tremendous amount of load on an old electrical systems these.