On 15x7 and 15x8 original fuchs - can't decide to keep them for winters or not.

[wrinkledpants]

Tires for these wheels are becoming scarce. I recently bought some A/S tires, and they are so squirmy on the roads that anything over 80 mph and I feel like I need two hands on the wheel. It's like the sidewalls just have too much flex, and the car takes a few seconds to respond and to settle down after quick inputs. They're Falken ZIEX ZE-912 I was thinking of keeping the wheels since they are original, and winter tires are plentiful for the usual sizes. But, if these tires are this squirmy with A/S, I can't imagine what they're going to be like with winters. I have 225/50/15 on all four corners currently, and the Yoko summers that came on them are no longer made. But, they were much more crisp, though a much harder tire over the bumps.

So, should I just bail on these wheels, get some 17s, and use them for both winters and summers? In denver, it can easily be 20 degrees and snowing one day, and 65 and sunny the next. So, it's tough selecting a winter tire here because of how drastic our weather changes day to day. And that's only in Denver. Nevermind what the weather is doing in the mountains. I'm fearful that snows on 15" wheels will just be too much of a compromise. I'm running 32 PSI up front and 36 in the back, and the car still feels unstable at highway speeds. My thoughts are with the smaller sidewall on 17" wheels will make winter tires much more tolerable. Anyone else find themselves in this predicament?



Ideas?

[will hung]

I would get your alignment checked first before buying new wheels and tires. If you decide to get new wheels/tires, I would keep your Fuchs. They keep increasing in value. Bridgestone started making RE-11's in 245/45-16 due to the Porsche community belly aching so much. Vintage 911's are getting more and more popular, but not only that. Vintage all cars are getting more popular, so eventually the tire manufacturers will start making good 15" tires. I say with fingers crossed.

[wayner]

ZIEX 512 vs. ZIEX 912

I have ziex 512s on my wife's car and have recommended them. I find them excellent as a three season summer tire.

Because the company got so much flack for not being good in snow (thats the missing season), they came out with the 912 that is better in snow but not as a good a summer tire.

I find anything that is really good in snow tends to wander especially on roads that have groves worn in them from traffic. (The tires climb in and out of those groves).

Unlike the 912, the 512 doesn't tend to do that. It acts more like a summer tire than a winter one, but the 512 may not be available much longer.

I wouldn't recommend the 912s unless you are concerned about snow.

BTW, Mickey Thompson has come out with some reasonably priced sticky 15s that are no where near as pricey as some of the 15" race tires.

I don't have any experience with them but here is some info.
Search Results for mickey thompson et - SummitRacing.com

Here is a list of sizes for one of their models
Mickey Thompson Performance Tires & Wheels
(see the first 4 lines of that chart for smaller 15" models)

[Dave Colangelo]

I would NEVER let those Fuschs go, the value is going up and up on them. What I would do is get a second set of rims and put winters on them. I dont drive my 911 in the winter so I dont know much about all season on them but I do this on my 944. I have 17 Boxster twists for the summer with summer tires and 15 Phone Dials for the winter with all seasons. Having two sets of rims allows me to change out my tires in a matter of minutes. As will says these old 911's are getting more popular as are all old cars, I would not worry about a lack of availability of tires in the future. I also agree that an alignment would be a good thing.

Regards
Dave

[wayner]

I don't think the issue is the need for snow tires, but the need for tires that fit. Many of the smaller sizes are only available all season now if at all (which is why my wife's car has blizzaks in the winter and ziex 512s in the summer).

I think is why he has these and started this thread. Am I right?

[GeorgeK]

All-season tire on a 911 is like basketball shoes on a ballet dancer and the same basketball shoes on a pro downhill skier: very good shoes on their own, but adapted to neither sport.
There's a reason Porsche conduct tests every year and determines which tires meet their approval (the N rating seen on the chosen tires).

I won't sey that the N rating is an absolute necessity, but at least tires that are good at their given task should be fitted.

I am running N rated Nokians winter tires on my C4 and the behaviour is exceptionally good, even on dry roads and high speed german highways.

One last thing: We strive to rebuilt, re-bush, re-shock, restore our cars' suspension, then proceed to fit sub-par tires???

[Tremelune]

I think you should worry about future tire sizes. Old cars are not getting more popular, they're just becoming unpopular less quickly. I doubt there will ever be as many cars with 15" wheels on the road as there are today.

From what I've read, I think your issue might just be all-season tires. "Summer" tires handle and grip better than all-season tires in the dry and in the wet. It's only when the outdoor temperature drops and the summer tires stiffen do they lose out to other tires on anything but snow. Winter/snow tires are much softer to compensate for cold roads (they also have tread patterns that sacrifice overall grip for better performance in snow). The only benefit to all-season tires is not having to change your tires or have a second set of wheels taking up space, and it's a reasonable trade off for some.

I'm in a similar predicament. I'd like to move to 17" wheels for grip and tire selection, but I'm wondering if I should hold on to my 16" wheels for a set of winter tires. I don't intend to drive in the snow, but I do intend to drive when it is below freezing. I don't really have space for a stack of wheels, though. The better compromise to year-round all-season tires would seem to be to simply drive slower for a couple months a year. I dunno.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/tire-test-all-season-vs-snow-vs-summer.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/products/know-your-tires-all-season-vs-summer-9647443

[wrinkledpants]

I tossed the A/S tires on there to hold me over until I figure out a permanent solution. I, by no means, would ever buy another set of A/S tires for this car. And if anyone is wondering, these tires are scary in the snow. Fine when it's slushy, but terrible when it's white.

I guess what I'm ultimately nervous about is how wallowy these A/S tires feel, and if these tires feel really unstable to me, then what are 15" snows going to feel like? There is the value portion of the wheels, but also the aspect that I could cash in on that value now for 17" wheels with summers and snows. The 17" snows with a lower profile seem like they'd handle better than the 15" snows - at least form a sidewall flex standpoint. Plus, 17" snows are a lot more expensive than 15" snows. So - I'm just kind of stuck not really knowing where to go, but feeling like 15" snow tires are going to be like driving on marshmallows. The Yoko ES100 I had on before (rears were pretty new, fronts were 8 years old), were rock hard to the point of feeling violent of city streets. But, when i turned the steering wheel at highway speeds, the car responded telepathically. As it stands now, it feels like I'm driving on tires that are low on air.

I like that these wheels are original, forged (thus lightweight), and going up in value. I hate that the tire selection is nil, tall sidewalls make the car drive like the car is drunk, and tire selection doesn't seem to be improving.

[Tremelune]

Additional, Miata-based perspective:

Disadvantage of Summer tires in Winter, but no snow - MX-5 Miata Forum

I'm probably just gonna sell my Fuchs and get a set of 17s with good summer tires...as soon as I'm done wrestling internally with the minutia of unsprung weight increases...

[SiberianDVM]

Pirelli P6000s are available for 15" rims.

I have run Bridgestone Potenza G019s on mine with no problems.

[porschenut]

15" Fuchs are going up in value? 16" yes, but I don't think 15's are, are they? Why would they go up in value when tire choices are dwindling? Everyone seems to be bailing on their 15's and buying 16's and 17's.

[Tremelune]

15s look cool with big, fat tires, and they're light...The choice of competition rubber is decent as well.

[will hung]

Originally Posted by porschenut

15" Fuchs are going up in value? 16" yes, but I don't think 15's are, are they? Why would they go up in value when tire choices are dwindling? Everyone seems to be bailing on their 15's and buying 16's and 17's.

Look at the values of 1965-1973 911's from 2004 until today. Then look at the values of all other air cooled 911's from about 2009 until today. You are starting to see a similar upward trend in value for air cooled 911's. Not as extreme as a long hood but it's there. I bought my early SC in 2009, for every penny I've spent on my early SC, it has appreciated to a point that it's as if I haven't spent a dime on it.

Now look at the value today of a hot rodded 1972 911 vs. an all original 1972. The values of 15" Fuchs are only going to go up as people try to return their cars to original. I sold my 16 x 6's and 7's 2 years ago. I'm kicking myself now. They are catching a couple hundred dollars more for a set now.

I've sat on the fence for about 2 years due to the unavailability of 15" tires. In that time they've gone up a couple hundred dollars a wheel. There are a number of us hounding tire manufacturers to start producing limited numbers of good 15" tires. They still have the tooling to make these tires, they just don't think there is demand. They felt the same way about 245/45-16's but Bridgestone heard our cries, and now they make the RE-11 in that size. They don't continually make that size, they make a handful a year. I'm not saying that we'll start seeing regularly produced 15" tires, but if we bellyache loud enough, they will start making a handful a year for enthusiasts.

[GeorgeK]

Porsche has again given an N rating to the Pirelli P6000, in 185/70, 195/65 and 215/60 R15W.
I bought a set and will have them mounted for the nice days on my cabrio.
15" will be back as the cars that carried them when new become more valuable.

[Canada Kev]

Keep your 15s to use in addition to anything else you might upgrade to. If you autocross, some low profile 15s are available that will be lightweight and give you a gearing advantage over the roughly 25 inch tall wheel/tire combo that the car is designed with.

[darrin]

I'd sell the 15s and either go with 16" fuchs for winter tires and 17s for summer or 16s all around -- decent selection of both snows and summer tires available for 16s.

I swapped winter>summer tires on my factory 16s for a few years before picking up a second set for my summer tires (upgraded from 16x6/16x7 to 16x7/16x8 for my summer wheels) --

I've been VERY happy with my most recent winter tire selection -- nokian wr-g2 in 205/55-16 on all corners. My first set of rears made it through 3 winters. These have surprisingly good dry road grip and ride, and are quite competent in the snow/slush/ice. They're also "n" rated by porsche.

[wayner]

I suspect it is tread squirm and not sidewall flex that you are feeling.

[RSBob]

How many pounds tire pressure do you run front and back. if you run too low, many of the symptoms you mentioned will occur.

[wrinkledpants]

32 front 36 rear.

[wayner]

If if is tread squirm, the good news is that handling typically gets better as the tread wears down