you wanna try buying something and getting it shipped to the uk.;)

too many customs duties etc.

but the shipping charges.......always found them to be reasonable considering the distance.:) heavy, expensive items are another story..................

I wouldn't worry about it, Wayne. It's not Canada that's at fault, it's just one particular situation which created a whiny, disrespectful customer.

We all have to deal with people like this sometimes. Again, don't worry about it.

Customer Relations and Shipping
 

One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is the value of customer service and its related costs. Putting the "$13.25" canadian debate aside for a minute...consider this.

Its human nature to want to find "the best deal possible". Frankly thats part of the hunt and part of the fun of restoring a Porsche. Despite the high prices of Porsche parts, the margin mark up is hardly what many consumers think it is. Running a business is expensive. Shipping supplys are expensive. Basement bottom prices don't always allow a business to survive and continue to bring added "value" to the Porsche experience.

The PP board isn't free either. In the long run over the years, many customers discover that building a relationship is more important then "fire prices". A relationship with a vendor like Wayne and PP will yield customers far greater savings then ripping through Pano each month. Sure sometimes you may pay 5-25 dollars more for a part from vendors on ocassion, but vendors reward loyalty. Both in prices, valuable product advice on the phone and follow up service.

Thanks Wayne for all your hard work!

We all like to save money and be price conscious. It seems that the circumstances that started this particular thread were unintentional.

I'll ignore the ignorant description of who I am and move on. Unfortunately being "not American" I cannot quite grasp the subtleties of the refined language used in your country.

First of all, for the record, this thread was started to discuss a general issue, not a specific vendor. Wayne decided, on his on, top wade in and "reveal" himself.

Second of all, if there is a way for me to save my money, guess what, IT"S MY MONEY so I can do whatever I think is appropriate. It may only take me 10 minutes to earn it, but how and where I spend it is my choice. Just because I drive a Porsche doesn't mean I have unlimted finds to throw around.

Finally, the issue seems to be one with USPS ripping off Pelican. Here is the note I sent to Wayne a few minutes ago:

Wayne,

I was offered a refund today by Tom and accepted it. I suggested a credit,
but he said a refund on the shipping portion was easier to administer on
your side.

I am no means implying you are not telling the truth, only that there is a
business process in place between Pelican and the USPS which is not under
control.

If you are not making money off this process and using the USPS rates, then
USPS is ripping you off. I am not questioning the rate that is generated by
the USPS system, what I am saying is that the discrepency negatively affects
you (hence the complaint from an otherwise satisfied customer) and the
customer who feels cheated.

It's too bad that you get treated like this. I hope you are able to resolve
the issue with USPS without having to resort to stopping shipments to
Canada.


Jim

Hi again. I'm not sure what you mean by USPS ripping us off? If they are undercharging us, then the difference indeed works in our favor. Again, the $3.01 on your package should have been $13.25 or something like that. The problem is that our customers (you) see the stamp on the outside of the package, and think that we're trying to rip you off with exorbinant handling fees.

The bottomline is that we go out of our way to reduce the shipping costs for International customers. This is why this issue irks me so much, because we are perceived as the bad guy when in reality, we are offering probably what are the lowest shipping rates around for International customers. We also have that handy toll-free number from Canada...

This has indeed become a real issue, because this is actually the fourth time that this has happened. I dismissed the first few times as idle accidents or errors made by the USPS, and figured they would figure it out on their own. Now, ironically, their undercharging us is causing us to be perceieved as overcharging our own customers. Ironic...

It's unecessary to resort to name calling too. I waded in because I recognized the problem from the first three times that it had happened...

-Wayne

Wayne...if you do 40-50-60 mail shippments a day and you have had this PITA but four times, I think it is a little harsh to ditch selling to your neighbors to the North!

Keep up the good work, try your best, and thanks for this forum!

Many companys, including my own have batteled with this concept of the shipping dept. becoming a profit center or not. If i sell something for $10.00 and shipping cost me $2.00 and i just pass along the actual ship cost i have just run $12.00 through my company that has a markup on only $10.00 of it , that cuts my profit margine on actual dollars income for the company and makes my CPA {wife} mad at me . I don't know what the answer is and i have been cussed at too for s&h charges and try to be as fair as possible. Just try to be aware of those charges at the time of the order and go elseware if those charges offend you.
Jerry

Handling for a mail order business (except for same day service and other similar special situations) is just another business cost like labor, rent, cost of operating funds, phone lines, etc. and should be reflected in the advertised cost of the goods being vended and not charged separately. The logic that allows the separate billing of handling could also be applied to other business expenses and where would it end? The discussion that perhaps the shipping departement should a profit center is ludicrous; would one insist that a business's janitorial service be a profit center? There can be a surcharge applied for everything! One local automobile dealer's service facility attempted to charge me a hazardous materials surcharge for the installation of an ugraded radio/CD player which was part of a new car deal! When I asked exactly what hazardous materials were involved I was told that it was a fee appied to all work regardless of it's actual nature. A short discussion with the service manager about whether he thought their fee would withstand scrutiny by the State Attonery General's office resulted in the fee being removed from the bill. If they want to roll these kinds of costs into their hourly rate that's fine with me and IMO that's the honest and straightforward thing to do. Shipping should be it's actual cost. Cheers Jim

I agree with Jim 100%. Charging outrageous "handling" fees is slimy, and I'm not talking about Pelican which seems to have a fair policy.

Next time some mail-order or internet biz tries to charge you a shylock "shipping and handling" fee, tell them that you have a fedex acount and ask if you can handle shipping yourself. They will throw a fit and tell you that they "can't do that'. Right, because it would wipe-out the "back-end" on the deal. :cool:

This is one thread that should be moved out of the technical forum immediately.

Mark Y.,

Couldn't disagree more. This forum is used extensively for non-technical discussions, including commerce, (Pelican parts, books, etc.), racing, people showing us pictures of their new car, etc.

And old skul,

I think that Wayne is holding his own fine here w/o your nose up his youknowwhat. In a service industry, when you start to refer to a customer complaining as "whiny and disrespectful", it's all over. Fortunately he does not seem to agree with you. :cool:

Jim Sims, I respectfully disagree with you - with a caveat...

While I don't agree that you should be charged a hazardous materials fee for the installation of your car, you probably should be charged this if there were some oil disposal, or antifreeze, etc.

In the same manner, we do not charge our walk-in customers shipping or handling, because they're packages are not packed and shipped. If I built the 'handling fee' into my overall price, then that would 1) make me uncompetitive on price when others charge very high handling fees, and 2) Unecessarily charge our walk-in customers higher fees when they're not paying for the service (ironically, just like your hazardous fee, but they wouldn't know about it).

I don't think that Pelican has ever been (rightly) accused of having exorbinant shipping and handling fees. With the exception of express delivery, our shipping fees are some of the lowest in the industry (Express packages, 5% each day, disrupt the entire flow of everything in the warehouse).

Since we are a web-based company, all of our shipping rates are computed on the web. Whether you call in, or use the on-line catalog, the rates will be the same, as they use the same calculator. The rates are also based on the weights of products. Unfortunately, the weights (when they are added to the catalog) are estimated. Adding and weighing 10,000 parts that are added would take weeks, if not months. Occassionally, the weight is way off, and that sometimes results in a package with one or two items being overcharged on shipping. When we find problems like these, we fix them immediately, and issue a credit - like we did in this particular case...

It also works the other way too. Sometimes the packages are undercharged as well. Funny, no one ever complains about that one though. :)

-Wayne

While I agree that this forum is used for non-technical discussions, I suggested moving this thread because it seems that it is starting to get nasty and personal.

The fact that it is non technical isn't what my issue. I probably shouldn't of put "technical" in bold type.

Threads about Pelican are exempt from all rules... :)

-Wayne

I used to sell 100's of diecast models as a hobby. Most were to Europe, Japan, and Canada. Depending upon which of 4 or 5 local US Post Offices I shipped from, the shipping amounts varied by as much as 200% on identical packages!!! These people working behind the counters are clueless on international shipping - anything beyond a postcard or standard business envelope mailed within the States is a real challenge for these guys. Many times I would advise <u>them</u> on what forms and rates to use based upon my previous limited experiences!!!!!!! The <b>only</b> constant was the 'deer-in-the-headlights' expression on the postal workers' faces when I would tell them I was shipping internationally. -- Curt

I have been trying to convince my boss for years that we should make Information Technology a profit center by sticking a porn server up in our DMZ.

For some reason, he doesn't take the idea seriousely. Maybe he thinks that I would just spend the whole day surfing porn while "loking for new web content":D

Tom

"I wouldn't worry about it, Wayne. It's not Canada that's at fault, it's just one particular situation which created a whiny, disrespectful customer.

We all have to deal with people like this sometimes. Again, don't worry about it."


i think that old_skul's comments were very rude.

the original poster did not mention pelican parts by name. he also was not aware of the problems the wayne explained in later posts. he simply saw a charge on his reciept for $15 bucks and a stamp on the box for $3+ bucks. i would be a little upset about a $12 "handling fee as well. now that wayne has explained how that hapenned, i am sure the original poster is cool about the whole thing.