new owner, 911 running hot?

[willyw]

Hi, I just bought a 76 911s targa and am new to their "normal problems". I previously owned a 912 E. Mine seems to heat up (240 degrees) if I drive it on the hiway a lot, I have been told this is a usual problem with these. I have been thinking of adding a ducktail spoiler, would this help the cooling ? What other things would help ? Also has anyone bought the ducktail from Performance Products and how does it fit? One last question, my car has some body rust, I thought 76 was the first year for galvanizing but that not all the cars got treated as it looks like mine didn,t , is this right ?-----Thanks for any info

[billwagnon]

240ºF is hot according to Bruce Anderson. He says 250º is "too damn hot" but that you might hit too damn hot on a trip.

My 73T is 210 around town, at 80 mph ambient 90-95º it was running 230.

The cool thing about the cars is getting a gauge with an actual temperature, instead of 'cold' 'warm' and 'pull over'!

[911nut]

The mid 70's cars didn't have the trombone cooler and brass lines up the side of the car to get the oil there. Also, the 2.7 engine had a 5 blade cooling fan instead of the 11 blade fan and it also had thermal reactors on the exhaust, which generate a lot of heat. So to get your car running cooler you need a an oil cooler (either a 28 tube brass cooler or a Carrera cooler and fan), brass lines and thermostat , different heat exchangers without thermal reactors (check to see what you have there) and an 11 blade fan (check that too).

[Saffs]

I think the 2.7 911S did have a trombone oil cooler - my ROW '75 did. I would check the oil is recently changed and is clean and, if it does have the trombone cooler (look under the right passenger side fender for the pipe work, trombone like), check that it's is operational when your car is 240º.
Is the car CA spec?

[willyw]

I have the 5 blade fan so probably the 1st thing would be to upgrade to the 11 blade ( also the easiest and cheapest ). Changing oil coolers would be another thing! What about these after market add on coolers such as oil filter coolers, line coolers ect. ?----Thanks

[willyw]

Thanks Saff, my car is not a Cal. car and the oil tank is located inside the right rear fender well. The oil cooler is under the car in front of the engine ( I think ) as I say I am still learning. I just changed the oil and filter so it is clean.

[pwd72s]

At the '78 Parade, I saw a "hot running" mid 70's car with a trombone cooler. The dealership idiots had UNDERCOATED the cooler & it's lines! The air was blue as the owner was busy with scrapers and solvents, other implements of destruction....by now, I'd think any undercoating problems would be solved, but might be worth checking...

[widebody911]

Some of the 70's cars had front coolers, some didn't. Mine did, and it had A/C. A buddy of mine has a '77 that's about 400 #'s from mine that doesn't, and his also didn't have A/C.

Mine had the loop cooler, which I upgraded to the Carrera cooler.

[dougcl]

Willy,
When you change to an 11 blade fan, take a look inside the engine shroud. Make sure the deflectors around the alternator are all in place and that there isn't any debris stuck in the cylinder fins from above. Also, look into getting the large 131mm crankshaft pulley and 930 fan pulley.

Plan on getting the front fender mount oil cooler. Use the Troutman thermostat to control it. You can cut a hole in the front valance and get some additional cooling, provided you add some ducting. See attached. My 75 runs at 180F typically. A few days back we saw 90+ outside, and I hit 195F max. You should be able to achieve this.

-Doug Clauder

[Kemo]

this would be an excellent experiment for the "cool collar"

[Targa Dude]

Hello Willy,
First off.. congrats! on your new Car..
I would have to agree you are most definately running way to hot.
I too have a 2.7 CIS that ran just as hot when I bought her. OK first and for most you definately need to get these temps down.

This is what I did

1. remove oil lines that run from thermistat to your front oil cooler
flush them out and clean off any under coating. also flush out oil cooler. you can also remove thermastat disassemble and clean too. if you decide to do this and you have a air compressor I can send you designs for a very simple to build flushing set up.

2. Clean excessive oil dirt grunge build up from under engine, oil tank res. oil return tubes so on.

3. when you replace your fan from 5 blade to 11 blade check to see if deflectors are installed and free of debri also while you have fan out you can go one step further and remove alternator. this will allow you to flush out the engine oil cooler from the top throughly.

4. Engine timming on the 2.7's is very critical and will cause your engine to run hot. Verify timming is correct.

5. remove your thermal reactors and install (a) the least of all expensive thermal reactor replacements. These look like small header assemblies. (b)install back dated heat exchagers and the best is (c) SSI's heat exchangers. ( very expensive)

Oh and one more recomendation, DO NOT RUN SYNTHETIC OILS
in your 2.7 motor unless it was recently rebuit by a reputable shop.
If you do chances are you will leak oil like nobody's business.
especially in Hot running motor.

good luck and enjoy

Jorge (Targa Dude)

[Chuck Moreland]

Your temps are much too high for regular highway running.

Sounds like you don't have a front fender cooler. Most US 2.7s do not.

I would guess that your internal thermostat is not operating properly. You can test this by placing your hand under the internal oil cooler (front side bottom of engine). It should be very hot, not just warm. If you don't burn your hand, the tstat isn't working.

Be sure that the engine fins are clean and not clogged with grease or debris. Same is true for the top of the oil cooler. You can see this by removing the front sheet metal on the engine, and the fan.

Do remove those thermal reactors if you have them and the air pump.

Make sure the car is in proper tune.

If you do all that and are still running hot, add a front fender oil cooler.

[CRH911S]

Willy,

Porsche does their homework before they do anything with their cars; cooling the engine recieved no less considerations.

It is my understanding that Porsche went with the loop cooler for US cars for a very good reason. US cars see more stop and go traffic and the loop cooler was the best option for dealing with the heat as the result of this type of driving. Radiator style coolers rely on air flow and there just isn't enough air flowing in stop and go traffic. I believe that is why auxillary fans are utilized with the latter.

The loop cooler in my car suites me fine. But then where I live the temperature rarely reaches 75F. My normal engine operating temperature is 180-185F.

Just my .02.

Clinton
Anchorage, AK

[davis911s]

Willy I am in the same boat as you are, so this thread is great for me too. I agree that timing is very essential to this. I am in the process of ensuring my engine is set properly.

I have the loop coller but it isn't working and my temps hit the same as yours. I already have the 11 blade fan.

If I find ANYTHING I will be sure to let you know. I am willing to try anything

Thanks everyone

Shawn

[JeffW]

my 76 gets up just over the 210 mark, never hotter than that and its 100 + degrees here. I have a front loop cooler on my car.

[911pcars]

"Porsche does their homework before they do anything with their cars; cooling the engine recieved no less considerations. "

Yes, they generally do; better than most manufacturers. Most of their homework was performed in Germany, far away from US customers and our working environment. There are many areas for improvement, either aftermarket or later upgrades. Here's a short list:

A/C
Chain tensioners
Overheating (head studs, oil cooling and thermal reactors)

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[willyw]

thanks to you all for the info, I have not checked my timing but suspect it may need to be adjusted and will do that asap. I am not sure where or what the thermal reactors are but will read up on that, my air pump is operating as I had to replace the fan pulley when I bought the car and installed the belt at that time, but I am going to remove it after all this info and didn,t think I needed it anyway.---By the way, I paid 6k for this car, 76 targa s with 76k actual 2 owner miles. The car needs nothing except some minor rust repair, I felt I got a bargain, what do you guys think?-----Willy

[JeffW]

I got mine for $5700 with a/c, power windows, sunroof engine has been rebuilt with all upgrades but chasis has 200,000 miles on it. 100,000 on the rebuild. You may have got a better deal. Mine was 2nd owner also.

[k9handler]

SAME ISSUE...I have the trombone cooler, and I am here in NM where it's 90+ from Apr - Oct. My car is hitting the 220 mark on the highway, and 250 on the track (last lap). I am looking into the front radiator style coolers and found this info:

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[speeder]

Quite a few things you can check right off the bat, most already mentioned, but you must not drive car w/ those temps. 2.7's will pull studs, (if it hasn't already), over-heating really exacerbates this problem.

A front cooler is a an excellent idea if you are in a hot climate, but a bit of work($) to install if car never had one, so I would immediately go through all systems from proper operation of therm/engine oil cooler, (this does most of the cooling even if you have the front one), ignition timing and fuel mixture, (if either one of these are off it can cause overheating and worse), and of course get rid of thermal-reactors if it still has them. If car still has T.R.'s and has lasted this long, I would be surprised. Good luck!