1987 Carrera 3.2 G50 starter problem

[pbmitchell]

I have a 1987 Carrera Cabriolet G50 (only c.50,000 miles from new) and it's developed a problem with the starter.

Sometimes, it starts normally but usually when I turn the key to start it, it clicks and the starter does not turn.

When I try again, the same thing will happen perhaps 5, 10, 20 or even 30 times and then suddenly the engine spins perfectly and it starts instantly.

Is the starter kaput and, if so, will the engine and box have to be lowered to replace it?

Thanks.

[vince_aust]

PB I assume the click you are talking about is a starter click. If this is correct it does sounds like a dicky starter. Sounds like the throw out solenoid. They can be removed and refurbished if you are prepared to get dirty, otherwise our host sells replacements. The fact the starter motor is clicking implies the circuitry is OK.

sorry cant help more than that - the next step is pull it out and check brushes, connections etc

[Pete in Spain]

I'm sure you have checked already but I would be looking at the engine earth, battery and starter cables. Sounds like a loose cable to me.

[spuggy]

Do a search for "yellow wire to solenoid" or similar. Does it only happen cold (first start) - or any time?

It's either a sticking solenoid (sometimes caused by old, hardened grease - whacking the solenoid can help unstick them, and is the traditional diagnostic/temporary fix for this on VW's) or not enough voltage getting to the solenoid. Measure it with a voltmeter would be my suggestion.

The latter could be literally anything from a bad ignition switch, bad ground or strap, bad battery cable - or potatoes growing in any of the connectors between the ignition switch and the solenoid - including the bulkhead connectors or the 14-pin plug in the engine bay. Or bad (internally corroded) wiring increasing resistance. Or even multiple factors, none of which would individually cause an issue - until combined.

Eliminate the solenoid from consideration, and then inspect and clean the heck out of everything electrical if you still have an issue would be my approach.

If you're lucky, it'll be a single grotty connector/connection somewhere causing voltage drop (hint: you can't just buzz out connectivity with a multimeter, measure the voltage or resistance instead) and it'll work perfectly as soon as you address it - or even disturbing/remaking the connection might be enough to "fix" it.

If not, you may have to work through everything in the path; worst case it could be multiple OKish-but-not-great connections just tipping it over the edge. These are a bear when the issue is intermittent - "usually" or "mostly" gets enough voltage to work. Then it's hard to say "it's fixed", just "hasn't happened since"..

It's much easier when it becomes a 100% failure... Yours sounds close enough that you should have a good feeling for when you find it.

Good luck!

[boyt911sc]

esonefour,

Some people claimed to have removed the G-50 starter with the engine/trans in situ and I tried it. No luck. In my desperation to get the G-50 out and have it tested 2 days before my scheduled cross country drive in November 2012, I seeked assistance from this forum.

John Walker came to the rescue and suggested that I need to drop the transmission side about 4" (distance between the transmission mount and chassis). Actually 3.5" would do but a little bit tight.





Took the starter to an alternator/starter shop and had it tested. Starter was working fine. Installed it back and re-attached all the electrical connections. Knowing that the starter was good, I concentrated on the electrical connections. And found the culprit. The yellow wire was not completely secured by the bolt at the starter terminal.

The cross country trip went on schedule and took us 5 days to cover the 3,000+ miles of hi-way driving. For those who are thinking of doing it, just do it!!!!! You won't regret it.

Tony

[pbmitchell]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll certainly investigate all those wiring connections (or as many of them as I can find!).

As for removing the starter, some months ago I read a Pelican article on '911 Starter Installation' that assured me 'removing the starter is straightforward and simple'. Obviously the 911 in question didn't have the G50 box. It's only recently that my research uncovered references to the G50 and effectively shattered all hope of doing the job myself. Oh well, c'est la vie.

As a bit of extra info for you expert diagnosticians, when I first turn the key and the starter doesn't turn, I hear quite a hefty clunk. The next attempt of two bring the similar sounds and then further attempts bring only a relatively light and mild click before - after an indefinite number of attempts - the starter spins perfectly and the engine springs instantly to life.

Any ideas why the clunk should be heftier at the beginning of these attempts?

[Ned, NYNA11]

pb, From the ignition switch, the wire goes through the firewall via a multi connector plug. Be sure the plug is tight as that caused similar symptoms in my '87

[jorijori]

Hi, I had exactly the same problem, sometimes I had to crank it > 20 times. My first thought was dead battery but after installing a new battery problem still persisted so I removed the starter ignition switch & cleaned all contact points now problem is gone. My car is 1988 3.2.

Originally Posted by pbmitchell

I have a 1987 Carrera Cabriolet G50 (only c.50,000 miles from new) and it's developed a problem with the starter.

Sometimes, it starts normally but usually when I turn the key to start it, it clicks and the starter does not turn.

When I try again, the same thing will happen perhaps 5, 10, 20 or even 30 times and then suddenly the engine spins perfectly and it starts instantly.

Is the starter kaput and, if so, will the engine and box have to be lowered to replace it?

Thanks.

[pbmitchell]

Progress!

I've just connected a jump lead from the battery negative terminal direct to the engine and the car has started perfectly twenty times out of twenty.

It would seem therefore that the problem is a poor earth connection somewhere.

So either . . .

a) The engine is poorly connected (electrically) to the car body or . . .

b) The battery negative terminal is poorly connected (electrically) to the car body.

Spurred on by those assumptions, I disconnected the battery earth strap (from the battery and from the nearby earth-bolt on the body), cleaned both ends of the strap, the earth-bolt itself and all the other wires connected to the earth-bolt.

Now, after doing all that, if I remove the jump lead connecting the battery direct to the engine, the starter spins on most turns of the key but still clicks and fails to spin on other attempts.

So it seems the starter is still not connected properly to the battery negative terminal.

Okay - bear with me, guys - my subsequent Googling has revealed the existence of an earth strap running from the transmission to the body. Would I be right in thinking that the purpose of that strap is to earth the engine (given that the engine is bolted to the transmission)?

If so, it seems a good idea to remove that strap and clean the connections.

If however it doesn't serve to earth the engine and the engine is earthed some other way, there seems little point if touching it.

And if that strap doesn't earth the engine, what does?



Suggestions are very welcome indeed.

[pete3799]

Trans. strap to chassis ground needs to be cleaned.
I had the same problem.

[pbmitchell]

I've just removed, cleaned and refitted the body end of the transmission-body earth strap and the car has started perfectly ten times out of ten tries.

Of course, that could just be coincidence and it might click uselessly on the next ten turns of the key - but let's think positive!

Or should that be 'negative' seeing that the earth was the problem?

Anyway, I'm thinking the problem is now solved and my gratitude to you guys is immense.

A very happy new year to you all!