Need help starting '74 911

[Rufblackbird]

Hi all,
I need a little help here. Recently bought a '74 911 targa that refuses to start. I've posted this picture and asked for help before but thought maybe I need to change the subject a bit.



I know I'm missing the voltage regulator and condensator (what does this do?)(thanks Jon and Jens) but what else am I missing? I took the voltage regulator off my '76 and can't seem to figure out how it plugs in. I'm assuming they are required in order for the engine to start? Right now I am not getting any spark...no power to the distributor. Are the voltage regulators the same in the '74 911 and a '76 911S? If not what else am I missing? Oh, and can anyone with a '74 911 post a pic of their CDS unit? Thanks!

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Jeff
1974 911 Targa (not running, but mobile)
1976 911S Coupe (running, but not mobile)

[This message has been edited by Rufblackbird (edited 07-23-2001).]

[Zendalar]

Is the ignition box making a sound? (Squeeeeeeeeee!)

[Kevin Taylor]

LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE MISSING ONE
OF THE THREE FUSES.

[DavidH]

It may be the Alternator has at some time been changed to a Paris Rhone style, which has the voltage regulator internal to the alternator. This might be one reason it was missing. Have you ever had the car running?? Do you have access to the previous owner? You may have other problems than just the voltage regulator. Good Luck...

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78 3.0L/3.2L CIS 911SC

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

One cable from the wiring harness to the CD unit isn´t hooked up. You musst run a ground from the engine to the CD box ground.

Wounder where the cable is.

Also the CDI connector looks like not hooked up.
Secure the one wire left over from the old regulator maybe it is still hot.

Grüsse

[Rufblackbird]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Yes the CDS unit does "whine", so I know that's working. I even took the one off my '76...no difference.

I don't think the fuses make any difference, since they are for the rear defroster, sportomatic trans, and something else that has nothing to do with ignition.

I've never had the car running, but according to receipts it was last running about 5 months ago, so nothing major should've happened. How do I check to see the alternator's the "Paris Rhone" style? Previous owner bought it in this condition, hoping to fix the starting problem. He couldn't, had to move out of town, so he put the car up for sale.

Oh. Sorry Roland. I had the CDS gound connected and it still wasn't starting. It cranks but doesn't start. I am getting power to the CDI unit, but still, nothing. I will check that wire you're talking about and post a bit later.

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Jeff
1974 911 Targa (not running, but mobile)
1976 911S Coupe (running, but not mobile)

[needlevalve]

I just went through the same thing with a 69 this weekend. Had power to the CD box but nothing at the coil or distributer. Turned out to be the points. The car had sat for a while and they had corroded. After a good cleaning with emmery paper and contact cleaner the problem was solved. Also be sure that the points are opening and closing. (remember you won't see spark at the coil until the engine is cranking over)

Your car shouldn't need the regulater to run.

Regards

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Matt Macpherson
1975 911 S
nvalve@yahoo.com

[Rufblackbird]

Hi Matt,
Thanks for the reply. I just tried cleaning the points...nothing happened. Until someone else is gets home to help me crank while I observe the points I won't know whether it opens and closes or not. Oh. Would the vacuum advance make any difference? There is no hose going to the vacuum advance. Thanks again!

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Jeff
1974 911 Targa (not running, but mobile)
1976 911S Coupe (running, but not mobile)

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

The fuses are:
8 amp CIS
5 amp Sportomatic
25 amp freh air blower

Grüsse

[team5150]

Jeff,

Here is a pic of how that should look in there. I have a ton of pix of the 74 - inside and out if you need anymore.



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Tom Sharpes
90 C2 Targa
http://members.rennlist.com/myc2

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

UPS i better start at the absolut begining. To check your points remove the cap and finger then hunk in 5th gear and push the car forward untill the contact has maximum lift. This should be some 0,3 -0,4 mm or a european picture postcard.

Just lets try those links:

http://www.centuryperformance.com/point_settings.htm

http://www.centuryperformance.com/timing.htm

Keep in mind those articles where made for domestics and not for the Porsche CD but the basework is the same it just sparks a bit more hefty.

Grüsse

[paulhagedorn]

I have definitely been through this with our '74 911. It was a complete ***** to solve. I think it took me 3 months of off and on playing with the car to get it to run.

One thing to check...have someone crank the car with you looking in the engine compartment. Look at the wires that run from the distributor and the coil to the CD box. I had two wires that were shorting against each other with a nice big fat spark. I ended up taking black electrical tape and wrapping both wires fairly well. Problem solved.

Although, there are many other things you probably need to look at as well. Check to make sure the coil is working properly...don't ask me how to, though.

[Rufblackbird]

Hi Everyone,
Finally got a chance to work on the car. Ok...I am getting 12 volts to the CD box and it does whine so it should be working. I've got 12 volts coming out of the left prong (or plug) of the CD box going to the distributor, but nothing from the right prong (I took the plug off and just attached wires to it) going to the coil. BUT, I took the middle spark plug wire out of the distributor and had someone crank the engine. I do have spark coming OUT of the coil, but none whatsoever coming out of the distributor going to the plugs. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!!

Roland,
Yes I do have 12 volts coming out of one of the wires (blue) where the voltage regulator is supposed to be. Does that make any difference?

Matt,
The points are clean, and are opening and closing. Still doesn't start.

Thanks!

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Jeff
1974 911 Targa (not running, but mobile)
1976 911S Coupe (running, but not mobile)

[Superman]

Am I misinterpreting, or did you say that you removed the center wire from the distributor and grounded it while the engine cranked and saw that there IS a blue spark from the coil? If so, and if the spark is not making it to the spark plugs, then it should be fairly simple. The electricity that comes into center contact on the distributor cap is passed onto the copper strip on top of the rotor, along that strip to one of the six contacts on the outer edge of the inside of the dist. cap. From there it obviously goes down the spark plug wire to the spark plug. It's hard for me to imagine a car that won't start at all if the distributor is getting power from the coil, unless the rotor is missing.

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'83 SC

[Rufblackbird]

Jim,
Yes you are interpreting it right. I took out the center wire and grounded it while the engine cranked and a blue spark was seen arcing to ground. So far maximum attempted distance was about 1/4" or so. You see, I thought it should be fairly simple too, but apparently it's not. Rotor and points are there, nothing that I can see is missing from it. It's not the wires either as I've tested it with the wires off my '76. So...I've got spark to the distributor, but no spark coming out. Any ideas anyone?

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Jeff
1974 911 Targa (not running, but mobile)
1976 911S Coupe (running, but not mobile)

[Thomas Owen]

The rotor simply distributes spark that is coming in to individual wires. If you have spark on the center wire the problem has to be in the distributor. You must be able to choose any plug wire and hold it to ground and see the same spark, only less frequent.
Tom

[Rufblackbird]

I think the problem does lie in the distributor, as I tried other wires and got no spark. But if anyone else has a suggestion, please let me know. Thanks!

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Jeff
1974 911 Targa (not running, but mobile)
1976 911S Coupe (running, but not mobile)

[rstoll]

new rotor and cap are cheap way to start.

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Robert Stoll
83 SC
83 944