I'm finally buying a Porsche 911

[GSpreeman]

Well, time has finally come, I am buying my first Porsche. It's a 1987 911. I am psyched! My first glimpse of a Porsche was when I was 6 years old when my cousin gave me a model kit of a 911. Since that time I always knew I needed to own one. Should receive delivery of it in 2 weeks.

PS. This should be really interesting. I've driven 3 on the tree but never a 5 speed.

[nostatic]

Well, you came to the right place. Have you inked the deal yet? Also, have you had a pre purchase inspection done? There is lots of expertise here to help you find the right one...or at least keep you away from a potential nightmare.

[curlesw]

Congrats! I bought my first Porsche 2 months ago and I am still smiling ear to ear

Enjoy!

Wayne C.

[falcon]

welcome aboard! Submit a pic when you can.

[GSpreeman]

Getting the pre-purchase inspection is a tough one. I am going to fly there to see the car and essentially buy it. I've gone over everything I can think of with him and it sounds as if the car is in great shape. My biggest concern was the motor, but that was rebuilt some 20K miles ago and should hold up for a while.

It may be possible to run it over to a Porsche shop to have them take a look at it before I buy.

Here's a quick question. He replaced the windshield because it was pitted. Instead of the winshield with the antenna built into it, he went economy and got a winshield without. He said the radio reception is mediocre. Can I purchase a "body antenna" or something so I can listen to the radio?

[nostatic]

How many miles, and does it have full records? Was it a good shop that did the rebuild (and why was it rebuilt)? There are those here that bought cars without a PPI, but you run a much higher risk. There are plenty of horror stories of cars welded back together, cheez-ball parts, etc. There should be a good independent shop near the buyer (dealers are pretty much useless with older cars) that can inspect the car for $100-200. If the seller balks at having you do that before the purchase, you should be VERY suspicious...

[MarkY]

Welcome aboard GSpreeman. Good luck with your car. As Nostatic says, I hope you have had a prepurchase inspection (PPI) done.

Hey Nostatic.... speaking of buying Porsches, what happened with the 2 cars you were going to look at last weekend?

[nostatic]

Looked at 3 SCs this week. One had a bad clutch and cv going, plus front end wander. The next one I didn't even drive...bondo on all 4 fenders and uneven door gaps. The last one had a cheap repaint and wacky interior redo (vinyl headliner?!?) with a very sloppy front end. There are a lot of crappy cars and clueless/optimistic owners out there.

Still ironing out a few budget questions too (recovering from the house purchase), but the search continues. Curt has a sweet sounding one that I hope to see next week.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by GSpreeman
Getting the pre-purchase inspection is a tough one. I am going to fly there to see the car and essentially buy it. I've gone over everything I can think of with him and it sounds as if the car is in great shape.

Where is the car? Post a location, and a board member who is local may volunteer to go take a look, or at least refer a good place to get a PPI. May save you a plane ticket.

My biggest concern was the motor, but that was rebuilt some 20K miles ago and should hold up for a while.

I may be a bit of a cynic, but if they don't have receipts, assume it didn't happen. Even if the seller rebuilt it himself, there should be receipts for parts and machine work. Hopefully it wasn't built by The "M" word. Also, what does he mean by "rebuilt"? Could be anything from a top end to a full rebuild with new P&C's. One will last a lot longer than the other.

Tom

[dickster]

He replaced the windshield because it was pitted. Instead of the winshield with the antenna built into it, he went economy and got a winshield without. He said the radio reception is mediocre. Can I purchase a "body antenna" or something so I can listen to the radio?

yes you can, and a better quality. but it doesn't sound as though he cherished the car then?? what else did he skimp on??

good luck though, great year to go for......

[GSpreeman]

Okay, here are some of the details:
1987 911
Guards Red, Black leather interior
244,000 miles
The owner lives in Charlotte, NC
Says he has all records
Engine rebuilt 20K miles ago
He will supply the name of the garage if I want it (last time we spoke I was on my cell and didn't have a pen handy)

If there is anyone on the list who lives in the area or, better yet, works in the Porshe garages there, let me know and I'll get you the owner's name.

I've seen photos and the car looks immaculate. Of course, so did my ex-girlfriend.

[adamnitti]

gspreeman:

it makes me a little nervous that you have already decided to buy the car without having seen it in person yet! unless you are mechanically inclined and can ppi the car yourself, i STRONGLY suggest you have a ppi done on the car before you commit. the car needs to be put 'on a rack' and checked out. don't let the excitement of the car overwhelm you and subsequently speed your handing over of the cash. now i'm not trying to be cynical, and i like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there are PLENTY of sellers out there that will lie to you over the phone to get you out there, especially if they know you are coming from out of town. some idiots' psychology is that if they can get you to travel far, you'll be frustrated if you have to leave without a car, so you end up compromising... i've looked at plenty of cars out of town that were not as advertised or described over the phone. i went from atlanta to tennesse once to see an sc. the guy told me the car had original paint. i got there and quickly figured out that the entire car had been repainted, and half-a$$ed at that. a seller of another one i saw, a widebody carrera, told me the car had never been in any accident. i drove a long way to see the car. the first thing i noticed was that the windshield didn't even fit in the frame. the car had been hit so damn hard that the body had twisted, and they tried to rectify the fit of the windshield using silicone rubber and touch up paint. i can't tell you how many times i've been told 'cold a/c', and went there to find the freon completely depleted. beware whenever someone admits to some dents or dings or tears or damage that 'you can't hardly see.' 'surface rust' is another term that is abused quite frequently... i now assume this means the area has rusted all the way through unless i can verify it, myself. i think you get the point. if people are willing to go this far to lie about what they are selling, you can be sure there are plenty of lesser problems that go 'unspoken' when these deals go down. there are a lot of 911s to choose from out there. take your time and get the right car. (hopefully this one will be, but i'm just being realistic.) good luck-

[Superman]

Get a PPI. Repairs on Porsches are expensive. Get a PPI.

244K miles is a lot. Engine rebuilds exist only if there is full documentation. And finally, don't fall in love. There are some beautiful dames out there. Nostatic has seen most of them, so you gotta wonder what's stopping him.

[adamnitti]

Originally posted by GSpreeman
I've seen photos and the car looks immaculate. Of course, so did my ex-girlfriend.

you can't really judge a car by photos. 244,000 miles? a testament to the car's reliability, but LOTS of things should have been replaced and/or serviced in that time. if the tranny has never had any work done on it, i'll bet at least a couple of the synchros are crunchy! pay the $75-$100 for a ppi if you are serious about this car. i'd be willing to bet money that a mechanic is going to find something needing attention. at the very least, you can use this to help negotiate a lower price. what is the guy asking for the car?

[emcon5]

Adam, that is frustrating isn't it? A friend and I wasted a lunch hour last week looking at an 84 widebody slant cab, which turned out, on closer inspection to be a 1972.

GSpreeman, while just about anything is possible, I am having a hard time reconciling a quarter million miles and "immaculate". That is a lot of miles, and there are a lot of expensive bits on a 911 that wear out in that time. As expensive as repairs can be on Porsches, it is foolish to buy one without getting a PPI, especially with that many miles.

Post a new thread asking for PPI reccomendations in Charlotte. If nobody replies, poke around here http://www.carolinas-pca.com/ and see if you can find a list of shops, if not, look for contact information and send an email asking for a shop reccomendation.

Did your ex have that many miles on her? If so, Californiaclassix may put her in their ebay listings

Tom

[speeder]

An '87 with 244,000 miles in immaculate condition would still have to be really cheap to make sense. I would think $10,000 tops. Even though these cars can potentially go forever, they are very expensive to service and maintain, you have to factor this in. Literally EVERY part on the car will be due for replacement at some point soon, if not already done, and resale is very limited w/ those miles. I can't stress it enough, we love our cars, but it is nothing to sink thousands into these cars.

Have someone from this board look at it before you buy, and post the price if possible, we look out for each other around here. Good luck.

[Bigbartguy]

Get a PPI no matter what. You'll save yourself cash in the long run. Dont be afraid to walk away either. a $300 plane ticket is much cheaper than a car that gives you headaches and $$$ for the next year.

I hope all of our 'warnings', etc. dont scare you away. Porsches are great cars. Many cars will run forever...but most parts wear out over time.


Tim
1985 Targa

[nostatic]

Speeder is dead on...244K is high miles, and even though it is a desirable G50 car, it is worth about $10K plus or minus.

Guards red cars are pretty easy to find. If budget is an issue, look for a bit older car with lower miles and a complete service history...and one that had owners that didn't cheap out on the parts. The windshield is a red flag. What other parts on the car are sub-standard? Did he go budget on the alleged engine rebuild? That could cost you about $6K if you have to do it over again.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Superman
Nostatic has seen most of them, so you gotta wonder what's stopping him.

Other than any psychological problems on my part, I can tell you that some owners have a creative definition of the words "excellent" and "clean". And pictures lie like a rug. One of the SCs I looked at yesterday was represented to me as an excellent condition car with 68K miles, totally clean. This poor car had been wrecked I don't know how many times, with bondo on all 4 fenders, uneven gaps, dented and rusting pan, etc. It did have a new cheap paint job however that made it look good from a distance (ie it would look great in pic).

You can't trust pictures or owners to give an accurate representation of the car. Some owners ARE brutally honest and will tell you all the faults with the car. Other owners just don't have a clue and really don't know what's wrong with the car. And still others don't provide full disclosure.

[GSpreeman]

Okay, now I'm getting worried. His price is $14,900.

At issue is that I haven't been able to find anything in good condition '86-'89 for less than $20K. Kelly's Bluebook et al list these cars at $16K but it's seemingly impossible to find one for that.

So, based on your expertise, if this car does have a well re-built engine with only 20K miles and the remainder of the car passes muster with no major findings in the ppi, what should I be paying?