Tight Clutch 88 911

NewPorsche91132 · 01-31-2013, 02:08 PM

Is a tight clutch a sign of a major issue on an 88 3.2? My PPI came back saying that was the only issue he really saw with the car (has 88k miles on it) and wanted to get people's advice before I pulled the trigger.

You guys have been a great help the last few days as I go towards buying my first 911. The help is greatly appreciated.

turbo nut · 01-31-2013, 02:16 PM

New cable took care of my tight clutch issue.

Flat6pac · 01-31-2013, 02:39 PM

Tight clutch on a G50 has to do with the cross pin on the throwout fingers. The needle bearings wear into the shaft and make engagement difficult.
The fix is engine and trans removal and separation and replacing the needle bearings with brass and a new cross pin.
Bruce

boyt911sc · boyt911sc's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo nut

New cable took care of my tight clutch issue.

The G-50 transmission is hydraulic operated system and does not have the clutch cable most people are familiar with the 915 transmission. Totally different transmission than 915.

Tony

Jcslocum · 01-31-2013, 04:08 PM

The slave cylinder could be ready to quit, but if its the cross shaft, this is a project that has "while I'm in there" big dollar project creep written all over it. I am just finishing up this job and Flat6pac is 100% spot on. The engine needs to come out.

The parts to do the shaft are about $160 and Pelican has a kit to do it that I used. Once they open it up, your going to be looking close at the clutch to make sure it's in good shape. If its not, then your looking at another $1500 or so in parts. Then there is the oil leak area called the "triangle of death" that needs to be inspected. That might set you back $50 in parts and lastly, if the fuel lines haven't been changed, they should be done while the engine is out. Factory lines at big $$ but you can heave new ones made up by a vendor here on the list for I think $300.

On top of this is all the labor. Ask the owner for all service records and see what's been done.

There are other tasks but those are the major ones that I can think of. Good luck and I hope she's a beauty!!

john walker's workshop · 01-31-2013, 04:47 PM

at 88K, it's probably still on it's first clutch, which should be about shot by now. the disc gets thin and the pedal pressure increases. the needle bearing cross-shaft undoubtedly needs to be replaced as well

rnln · 01-31-2013, 04:49 PM

Beside the part of what Jon said about clutch is upgrade to 964 (if I remember right, basically upgrading some parts in there). Clutch replacment and that upgrade quotes I got were between $2000+ up to $4,500. Of course I chose $2,500

NewPorsche91132 · 01-31-2013, 09:32 PM

Owner has paperwork for a clutch replacement at 81k. The guy who did my PPI said, "clutch doesn't need to be replaced, it just isn't new. Nothing to worry about." He's a Porsche certified mech. Do I trust this? Do I have another PPI done someplace else? PPI was done at Aurel & Don's here in LA. I know Seinfeld gets all his cars done there so I would have to imagine it's a reputable shop.

m110 · 01-31-2013, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewPorsche91132

Owner has paperwork for a clutch replacement at 81k. The guy who did my PPI said, "clutch doesn't need to be replaced, it just isn't new. Nothing to worry about." He's a Porsche certified mech. Do I trust this? Do I have another PPI done someplace else? PPI was done at Aurel & Don's here in LA. I know Seinfeld gets all his cars done there so I would have to imagine it's a reputable shop.

Was the cross shaft either replaced with the factory upgrade (new needle bearing) or the aftermarket bronze bearing when the clutch was done? This is a key point. Any mechanic worth their salt does the upgrade regardless of condition after 25 years and when doing the first clutch job.

turbo nut · 01-31-2013, 10:02 PM

Oops! I should have noticed the year.

Quicksilver · 01-31-2013, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewPorsche91132

Owner has paperwork for a clutch replacement at 81k. The guy who did my PPI said, "clutch doesn't need to be replaced, it just isn't new. Nothing to worry about." He's a Porsche certified mech. Do I trust this? Do I have another PPI done someplace else? PPI was done at Aurel & Don's here in LA. I know Seinfeld gets all his cars done there so I would have to imagine it's a reputable shop.

So the clutch getting tight 7K miles after the clutch was replaced...
I would bet that they retained the needle bearing cross shaft (probably the factory 'upgrade' unit). I would also bet they didn't use the correct grease on the clutch shaft. They are extremely sensitive to the type of grease you use on the release assembly.

As far as the $$$$ estimates to repair...
It shouldn't be much more then an hour of labor once you get past the cost of R&Ring the engine and trans. The only other cost would be the parts needed to switch it to the bronze bushing setup.

michael lang · michael lang's Garage

This is very interesting stuff. I know eventually I will have to replace the clutch in my car so I'm glad I saw this thread to better inform me of what to ask or what to do when it's time.

Jcslocum · 02-01-2013, 03:31 AM

Images of a BAD shaft and bearings:

You can see how the needle bearings have dug into the shaft over time. This is about 89K miles on my Targa.

Rusty, Crusty needle bearing that is in the clutch fork.

hcoles · 02-01-2013, 05:58 AM

One bad thing that can happen is if one or both of the ears on the transmission that hold the shaft break.
You could change the slave and see if that is the cause, but if the increase in necessary force comes from inside this is not good, something is getting hung up. You will need to check the shaft and where the TO bearing slides on the tube. I think there is an upgraded tube available.

Smoove1010 · Smoove1010's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

I would bet that they retained the needle bearing cross shaft (probably the factory 'upgrade' unit). I would also bet they didn't use the correct grease on the clutch shaft. They are extremely sensitive to the type of grease you use on the release assembly.

What is the correct type of grease to use on the clutch shaft/release assembly?
THX
GK

NewPorsche91132 · 02-04-2013, 05:20 PM

Got the service records. According to them, a clutch kit was put in but not mention of needle cross bearing. Do I assume it's in or assume it wasn't replaced?

Also, don't these cars typically have heavier clutches?

Jcslocum · 02-04-2013, 06:10 PM

What did you think when you drove the car? Clutch force is quite subjective.

You could look at the shaft and see if it has a new keeper on it. It may be possible to pull the shaft with the trans in the car..

hcoles · 02-05-2013, 06:50 AM

You can read in this thread my attempts to re-engineer the clutch shaft pivot bearings and shaft. So far so good after a considerable amount of time but I haven't pushed it much. You might find ideas in the thread.

G50 fork shaft upgrade test results

gamin · 02-05-2013, 07:08 AM

Assume that the cross pin has NOT been replaced. Mine needed replacement at about 90K. I saw another one at about same miles that needed replacement and was VERY difficult to remove. It is a known problem with the G50. Factor this into the cost of the car.

Quicksilver · 02-05-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoove1010

What is the correct type of grease to use on the clutch shaft/release assembly?
THX
GK

- The factory bulletin specifies "Olista Longtime 3 EP".
- John Walker says he uses "Optimoly high pressure grease #000.043.024.00" (I trust every word that comes out of John Walkers mouth!)
- I use Bosch distributor grease. It is available at any VW parts place and does the job.

But if you are in there I would switch to the bronze bushing setup. No one complains about issues with those.

BTW - I always wondered why I've never seen 2 different kits for the bronze bushing kits. Shouldn't there be one to replace the stock cross shaft and a different one to replace the upgraded cross shaft?