Careful Using Antisieze

[M.D. Holloway]

Just a heads up, if you use antisieze on any fittings that could come in contact with the oil stream or even fuel you could be in for a bit of a problem. Those products can be zinc in phosphorus, zinc and even calcium and sometimes (not always) they can create some sludging.

[redstrosekNic]

I would imagine one would have to use quite an excess to create damaging sludge, right?

[RDM]

Since you bring up antisieze, I have a question I've been saving for a while. Where is antisieze appropriate, and where is it not? It seems to me that antisieze on any threaded fastener would be a good thing, provided (as I have just learned) the stuff doesn't come in contact with the oil or fuel supplies. Beyond that, may I happily smear it wherever threads hide?

[E Sully]

Just don't use it on spark plugs. NGK specifically says not to use it.

[M.D. Holloway]

Dru,
Good question - I would say to use it (and I don't mean to sound trite) where you will be looking to loosen the bolt/nut at sometime in the near future. Teflon tape seems like it is most useful on thread that require a very airtight fit - air lines, propane et al as well as chemical and fuel. The antisieze is more for structural fastening systems.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by redstrosekNic

I would imagine one would have to use quite an excess to create damaging sludge, right?

funny thing about sludge, its like a grain of sand in an oyster....doesn't take much to form a pearl. Establish a nucleation site and away ya go...

[rnln]

My sparkplugs are rediculously tight after a while. I broke one of them, and felt like I would break them all when undo. After I started to use antisieze, it makes more sense when turning them loose. I feel much safer with it.

[Autoban]

Originally Posted by E Sully

Just don't use it on spark plugs. NGK specifically says not to use it.

I wonder why that is. I did the spark plugs on my '86 Cab this year and did not use it (and have never used it on any car), but I have been flying airplanes for almost 20 Years and own mine now for over 13 years and always used it on the plugs. My airplane mechanic always makes sure that I use it. What's the difference?

[Targa Me]

Originally Posted by E Sully

Just don't use it on spark plugs. NGK specifically says not to use it.

What is the reasoning for this?
I use it on spark plugs all the time. Aluminum head, steel threads on the plugs equals dissimilar metals. Without antiseize I had a plug on so tight I couldn't get it off and when I finally did, the threads came with it.
Since using antiseize, I haven't had a problem since.

[equality72521]

Originally Posted by Targa Me

What is the reasoning for this?
I use it on spark plugs all the time. Aluminum head, steel threads on the plugs equals dissimilar metals. Without antiseize I had a plug on so tight I couldn't get it off and when I finally did, the threads came with it.
Since using antiseize, I haven't had a problem since.

Probably due to grounding requirements.

[RichardNew]

I've written on this both in Vintage Motorsport magazine and my blog. Here are a few paragraphs.

Lubrication and Torque: Friction in the threads can give you a false reading. In extreme cases this friction can account for almost 30 per cent of the torque reading. The specified torque value generally assumes clean and dry parts. That means no dirt, no rust and no dried up gasket sealer. You don’t want anything except shiny metal on the bolt. Wire-brushing the threads will normally help remove rust or sealant.

We can minimize the effect of this friction by using lubricants on the threads. A huge number of lubricants have been tried with varying degrees of success. Among these has been grease, chicken fat, mayonnaise, graphite, Teflon, plastics and encapsulated formulas that smash and liquefy under pressure. However sophisticated they might be they’ve all fallen short of the goal of totally eliminating friction.

Richard Newton
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[equality72521]

Originally Posted by RichardNew

I've written on this both in Vintage Motorsport magazine and my blog. Here are a few paragraphs.

Lubrication and Torque: Friction in the threads can give you a false reading. In extreme cases this friction can account for almost 30 per cent of the torque reading. The specified torque value generally assumes clean and dry parts. That means no dirt, no rust and no dried up gasket sealer. You don’t want anything except shiny metal on the bolt. Wire-brushing the threads will normally help remove rust or sealant.
Richard Newton
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This is true. When I was in the motor biz we had to adjust our torque settings based on dry or lubed. Here is an example chart: BOLTS AND TORQUE SPECS

[dshepp806]

So,....when it comes to lug nuts,..and the appropriate torque specs, what is everyone setting this torque to after (LIGHTLY) applying copper antiseize? You go less than 96-97 foot-pounds?

LubeMaster: please comment a bit more on "nucleation sites".

Thanks!

Doyle

[Jim Sims]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

Just a heads up, if you use antisieze on any fittings that could come in contact with the oil stream or even fuel you could be in for a bit of a problem. Those products can be zinc in phosphorus, zinc and even calcium and sometimes (not always) they can create some sludging.

Reference? There are hundreds of if not more anti-seize formulations and you're painting with a "very broad brush."

[Nathans_Dad]

I've heard it both ways so I'll ask here, should you use anti seize when installing new exhaust head studs into the case or no?

[Steve@Rennsport]

Great subject!!

I'm glad Mike broached the subject as there is a certain degree of misinformation and lack of context for what facts there are. Anti-seize compounds, whether they are aluminum, copper or nickel-based, are quite useful for preventing damage as well as easing disassembly of parts.

The rule of thumb has always been: "Less is More".

I use both copper & nickel-based ones depending on the application and a tiny bit goes a long way.

Regarding spark plugs,....the way you prevent over-torquing a plug and the ensuing mess that creates is to "educate" your hands so you learn to feel the gasket (crush ring) compressing. With some practice, you'll master that skill so a tad bit of copper-based anti-seize on plug threads won't cause you to over-torque them. It certainly prevents a lot of drama on extraction.


Rick,

I do not use this stuff on the threads anchoring the studs into the heads (or a case). For that, the proper grade of loctite is best. Now,....use anti-seize liberally on the threads holding all of the exhaust system components to ease removal at a later date.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by E Sully

Just don't use it on spark plugs. NGK specifically says not to use it.

Really? Some spark plugs come with A/S already on them. I've been using it on plugs for 30 years.

[shrtshck]

I use anti-seize sparingly on all spark plugs, on the Porsche I use it because of the frequent plug changes result in multiple application of a steel plug into an aluminum head. On my other vehicles I use it because the long life plugs could be there for years. After breaking a seized plug off in a cast iron cylinder head and luckily being able to chase it out after a long soaking in penetrating oil I am very cautious in ensuring it doesn't happen again.

As to the issue of dry vs wet torque, look at a new threaded fastener, it will likely have a thin coating of oil based lube from the factory. Now compare that to an old rusty dry wheel stud. I don't use anti-seize on lug nuts but I do ensure they have a "light" coating of oil (couple drips and light wipe off), as they would have had new from the factory.

[E Sully]

For spark plugs, it seems using anti-seize causes over torquing with damage to the threads in the head and the spark plug.
This is from NGK's web site.

Solution
For spark plugs with special metal plating simply do not use anti-seize on initial
Installation; All NGK Spark Plugs are manufactured with a special trivalent Zinc-chromate shell plating that is designed to prevent both corrosion and seizure to the cylinder head; Thus eliminating the need for any thread compounds or lubricants.
Additional Information:
NGK recommends only using spark plugs with metal plating on all aluminum head applications to prevent damage to the head and plug. Metal shell plating acts as a “lubricant” which breaks away from the main body of the spark plug during removal, preventing damage to the spark plug and or threads in the cylinder head.

[Kidasters]

Steve@Rennsport has the best answer here....

Things like copper, nickel, lead, zinc, teflon, grease all make up thread compound or anti-sieze. Whatever you want to call it. It does a lot of things. It adds lubrication to the threads. It helps with the seal. It makes it so you are less likely to cross thread or "gall" threads when putting the connection together or taking it apart.

When to use it? On connections you want to take apart at a later date.

How much to use? A thin coat if you are worried it's going to extrude (or come out and make a mess), more if you don't care.

I love the stuff. That and lock-tite blue. I'm scared of Lock-Tite Red.