Sportomatic to manual (901, 915 or G50)

[930 Dreamin]

It has been a few years since I posted here but life takes some turns and so here I am back into wanting to enjoy my 911 again.

Mine is a 1972 911E which has been converted to a RS look. The rear guards are steel RS from an early 80's conversion. It is a 4 speed Sportomatic with the original 2.4L.

I have owned the car since 2004 and it was driven for a couple of years before being dry stored till now. In between I have owned Split window VW vans, pre merger AMG Mercedes and also a 1973 Sportomatic Targa. Plus there has been a few more Mercs and VW's in between..

So, I just need to get this 911 out and enjoy it. I have a set of Carrera decals which will go on soon. I know the car will need some other remedial items to get on the road properly but I will sort this out.

My intention is to convert to a manual 5 speed but dont know which one. I like the 901 gearbox pattern as I had a Mercedes 2.3-16 Cosworth with this shift pattern and enjoyed it.

The other option is going to a 915 or G50. However, the 915 option is looking pretty good due to its availability.

Almost everyone I have spoken to has said to keep the car Sportomatic. Well I definately appreciate early 911's for their purity. My car does not have the original front bumper, neither the original rear bumper, nor the original engine lid. They have been replaced with RS look glassfibre items and that is how I got the car. The rear guards are widened steel flares though. It would be a significant amount of work and expense to get the car to an original state after sourcing the original body parts. Then it would make sense to keep it Sporto. Can be done but I dont want to go there. I like the Sporto but I want to drive a manual 911. Yes I could sell and get another but I also like the RS look.

Once this is sorted I will also look for a 1976-77 Carrera 3.0 or a post 1985 3.2. Always wanted one of them but want to work with and sort out what I have now. I intend to keep the Sporto parts but am certainly not kidding myself because I know it will likely never go back to being a Sporto again.

Question:

I will likely change to a 915. I need to know if anyone has a parts list for the conversion. My car is right hand drive from the factory (Yes I know - makes it much rarer being a 911E Sportomatic as well). Couple of images of my car.

I will really appreciate any help I can get. The car will be used as a Friday and weekend driver.

[gamin]

You are right. It would be costly to change back to narrow body stock. Car looks real good as is. Since it has already been modified go with the 915. Minimal mods needed. Then mate it to a 3.0 or 3.2. Now that would be FUN. You do know that you have a lightweight car? One of the big advantages of the long hoods. And yes, keep all the old sporto parts. From what I read they are rare. Again, car looks real nice and tastefully done.

[930 Dreamin]

Thanks very much gamin. A 3.2 is on the cards but I want to go manual first. Aside from the power benefit, I like the look of the manifold on the 3.2.

I'm learning fast so if someone could please put up a list for the conversion I will really appreciate it.

[Dodge Man]

I had an early 70s dilemma years ago when the early 70s 911s were not highly valued. Today things have changed, the car can be retro-fitted with parts from a rusted salvage car to preserve value. Do you want to move on with more changes from factory with total disregard for current & future resale value? Sporto cars are not that common and if the numbers match do you want to go further down the modification road of "no $$$ return"? I would have been better served to leave my 73 stock and just buying a used 4s and saved a lot of $$$ and I would also have a stock 73 collectable in the garage. 10 years ago it was "it is a 911T so hack it up". You have an "E" not a "T". M2CW Now the market has changed so keep the "back-date" doors open and buy the updates in a modern car as a preservationist if nothing else(it is also much less expensive in the long run).

[930 Dreamin]

Well there is the thing. I am going to have to do a lot of work to get it to stock, such as factory bumpers etc etc not to mention bodywork on the rear arches back to steel originals. The car is in very very good condition so it is pointless doing all that at this stage. Maybe if I still have it 20 odd years on yes it will be worthwhile, considering the super rarity status it will have as a RHD Sportomatic 911E. Of course this means it will need to go back to being a Sporto but who knows.

So, yes I would prefer to keep it original but please see my reasons abovementioned. Will I regret it? No I dont think so, because I will going to a 2.7 motor at some stage on the same car.

so we are back to the conversion parts list. I have got a bit of an idea now and have read some threads on here and will see how we go.

[930 Dreamin]

Ok so the time is coming close for me to pull the trigger on the conversion.

I found a wrecked 3.2 with a G50 gearbox. This is going to kill 2 birds with one stone.

So, I need some help with what I need from the 3.2 to complete the conversion on my car.

I have not ignored what other people have said about keeping it Sporto but :
1. In our market here Sportos tend to have much lesser value than manuals.
2. There are no real early manual coupes for sale here.

I really need to start enjoying a manual 911 properly and this is an easier option since I already own an early car.

Any help with this is appreciated before I go and talk to the local Porsche specialist. Thanks.

[BK911]

A G50 isnt an easy conversion.
A 915 will almost bolt right in.

[GaryR]

G50 conversion will require the pedal cluster and hyd clutch setup for the G50 so be sure to get that from the wreck, along with all the Motronic hardware and wiring (unless you plan on carbs/ITB's and hybrid ignition setup). The G50 itself will need to be shortened, best bet it to talk to Patrick Motorsports as this is a big part of his business..

[group911@aol.co]

I'd vote on sticking with the sporto. A well setup 2.2 sporto I had was just a pleasure to drive and they say the 2.4's with more torque are even better. How about trying the 3.2 with the sporto?

[GaryR]

Why not just trade it for an SC or Carrera and if you want a long nose convert it? Would be cheaper, easier, and you will have what you want...

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

I'd vote on sticking with the sporto. A well setup 2.2 sporto I had was just a pleasure to drive and they say the 2.4's with more torque are even better. How about trying the 3.2 with the sporto?

Having driven this car, I can tell you that a well tuned Sporto is a thing a beauty. And contrary to popular perception they are in fact a manual transmission, not an automatic. There's no torque converter and no loss of power on transfer.

However, this recent discussion will give you a certain idea of where the Sportomatic sits in the market currently:
What will it take to sell my car?

My personal opinion is that today, a Sportomatic doesn't carry a market premium. And in some circles it carries a value ding. But give it another 5-10 years and Sportos will be rare and unique enough that they will carry a 10-20% premium. This is right in line with the comments above about how people used to say "It's just a T, crush it or modifiy it will reckless abandon." (yes, I realize that I've reversed my position on this point. I think what I said in that thread was incorrect with respect to long term market values).

No, the car in question doesn't have original bumpers or flares. However, those things are easily reversible given current market conditions. I've seen many cars that were "updated" to impact bumpers get reversed in recent times for a tidy profit because the car got dumped for cheap as non-original.

It's your car and you can do whatever you want with it. Whatever you decide, under no circumstances sell of or dispose of the Sporto parts if you dismantle it. You'll regret it later. Personally, I would sell the car and put the money towards the car that is what I want. Many of us, myself included, have a tendency to get emotionally attached to these cars. But they are just cars. I've owned enough of them now to realize that I get over the "loss" pretty quickly and get excited about the next one just as quickly.

All of that said, if you convert it, get a mag case 915. The car is a '72. a mag case 915 with 7:31 CWP is what is "correct" for that sort of car. Sticking with the RS period correct twist on the vehicle, a mag case 915 is the logical choice.

[930 Dreamin]

A big thanks to everyone who provided their input. I'll take more, even from the left field. It's not over.

I went to see the local guy here who I have heard good things about. He was very encouraging and guess what. Yes he also said keep it original.

I guess this is not the end of the world if I want a manual Porsche. I have selections from 3.0 911's to 993's as well if things don't work out.

Going to see how I go and I will keep this thread updated relating to keeping Sporto or going 915.

Something to think about .... In the modern world we see countless forums dedicated to classic cars and people doing them up and driving them. But drice around in the weekend and you see very little of these classics?????????????

This is the drive for me to use my 911 solely and completely in the weekends to go everywhere.