The 'book-value' for Targa and Coupe are essentially the same - sometimes slightly higher for Targas! If Targas were 'white elephants' they would take a 25%-50% hit in the market. They don't.

Bottom line: an 84-89 Carrera Targa, Cab - or even the ultra rare Coupe ;) - is not a 'collector car'. They are purchased as a compromise - <i>"it's the newest and best 911 <u>I could afford</u>. If <u>I could afford</u> a 964, Boxster (maybe), 993 or 996, I would have bought that instead."</i> You're competing with at least 3 newer models of Porsches at that price level.

If it were a 'collector car', say an early S, it would be a different ballgame. Nobody in the market for an early S at $28k would say, <i>"gee, I'd rather buy a 964, 993 or Boxster for that price. "</i> They're not interested in other models! And they'll pay whatever it takes to get a good one. Not so with the Carrera. -- Curt

Curt, your notbiased are you?;) Without getting into the whole Targa vs coupe thing, I think the book value is specific to those who want targas. When I was shopping for my car, as soon as I saw Targa, I was on to the next advertisement. (I wanted a coupe for looks and track use.) When I would come accross an ad for a 911 that seemed would seem priced below market value, it would end up being a targa. I think someone who is not quite sure on which car to get will consider a targa. One that has a coupe on their mind will move on. Yourself, being a targa owner may not see this. Us coupe owners can tell you in a second why the car is still available. Its black and white, no gray in between.

<i>"Curt, your notbiased are you?"</i>

Now what would make you think that? ;) I agree the market is smaller for Targas, but this isn't the problem with this particular car. The market for an 85 Carrera at this price level isn't small, it's microscopic!!!! I'll close with this hypothetical question:

For $28,000 would you rather own an immaculate 17 year old 85 Carrera <u>Coupe</u> or - for $1000 more - a 7 year old <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1840238734">993</a>? -- Curt


BTW: I like Targas and Coupes (I don't like Cabs though, so I do have some prejudice!) :)

I'll chime in here -- In October, pretty well into this "stock slump" and right after 9-11, I pulled the trigger on an 89 Carrera coupe, with 43K on the odo. I got it for 27.5, down from an asking price of 29. So yeah, I think your asking price is a little high.

That being said, I think you could get pretty close to that, even in this market. It is a question of completely saturating the market though, and making sure that the guy who wants YOUR car sees that it's available. That means all the porsche publications, prominent advertising venues in major cities, and maybe even a stint on ebay. If you want the money you're asking, you have to make sure that everyone who wants to buy a porsche in the US. sees your car.

Hope it goes well for you.

You could always advertise it as Nick Cage's "other" car. That should make it worth at least $100,000.;)

The market you are selling to, the Porsche crowd, is a crowd that mostly prides itself on finding the bargains and believing they (we) know The Deal when we see it. For that reason, most will look elsewhere ("Hey I found the perfect Carrera for $XX.XX; can you believe it?").

If you can, park the car outside of work with the For Sale sign on it along with the total ad saturation. You'd be very surprised how many fish will eventually bite.

John

Just for fun, I thought I'd post a link to the consignment dealer where I bought my Carrera two years ago. They typically have about 200 used Porsches for sale at a given time. Given the discussion on this board, I think some of the prices will be enlightening. Keep in mind this is in the NYC area.

http://www.parcars.com/cars.html

I bought my '85 Carrera Coupe with 81,867 miles for $19,900 in May of 2000. As a fun side note, I was an employee of Bell Labs (Lucent) and used a portion of my 600 shares of LU to buy it outright (worth about $60/sh at the time).

Today ALL 600 of those shares would be worth about $900. :rolleyes: <I>That's</I> the difference in the market for a comfortable but far from wealthy dude like myself.

Rog, that's "timing" the market!!!:cool:

Doug- your car is very nice, I don't blame you for wanting top dollar. I found a 930 that I wanted to buy a few months ago, and put my car on the market briefly. I did a very detailed ebay add.... lots of photos, listing of all records, prev owners, and completely described all of the faults. The add took me a full day to write, but the auction ended at $31,900 (did ot sell it) and I had a pilot fly down to look at it and he offered $33,000 for the car (again, did not take it). I was in the same boat as you... perhaps too fond of my car- but to me it was worth $35,000 and I was not going to take a penny less than that. I still have it, and may have it forever which is ok with me. Point is, like others have said, you have to get the car out there. Ebay is a great way of doing this. I had over 14,000 hits on my add, and that does not include the people who looked at it several times! <p>
You know how people say that the two best days of boat ownership are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it? The very worst day of Porsche ownership is the day you sell it. I remember the day I sold my first car (86 coupe)- watching it pull off on the transport truck made me want to cry. Just keep it!

Sean, I remember when you were trying to sell your car. It was very nice, but not perfect. I cannot believe that someone offered you $33k for it. And you turned it down! I mean, I believe you, but that is incredible. I do not think that a BRAND NEW '87 cab in triple black, (best resale colors for that car), would hit $35k. These cars are common. And NOBODY collects '87 carreras, they just drive them. You will own it forever, but maybe not a bad thing, obviously very attached. :cool:

"toy car"...
 

..."I would not consider a Carrera ( 84-89) a toy car". For that matter, not even an SC. This generation of cars were like Volvo's, in the sense that you could legitimately drive them for 200,000 miles with no problems other than typical mantainence issues.

Now early 911's I would percieve as hobby cars. However, Curt..where is it that I can buy a 95 993 for $28,000.00. Not that I'm looking , but that seems about $10,000.00 less than what I see them for here in LA.

On another note: This morning in the classifieds, Sonny Bono's 74 Carrera ( as seen curently on Ebay), and that has a 75 Turbo tail, was listed for.......drum roll.......$30,000.00....whew.................!!

Dennis- The value of an item is a combination of what someone will pay for it and what someone will sell it for. My car might not be worth $35.... but the 930 I was after was $36, and had not been driven in a long time.... it needed some work. I just know my car and have known all the owners- I know it has never been abused, always garaged, etc. To me, that has value- and unless I sell the car to my brother no one else will have the same level of confidence that I have. So, your right.... I may have it forever (I can live with that). As far as the "not perfect" thing goes, it soon will be. New Bilstiens (sports), axles, conv. seals, floormats, and re-stiching the wheel are all in progress.

Curt, ask and you shall receive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1840238734

993's and Boxsters are in freefall mode right now. Not because they're bad cars - they're great! It's just supply and demand. We'll see more and more $30k 1995 993's in coming months.

-- Curt

Not in California or probably other sunny states. California contains most of the most undesirable Porsches manufactured - Targas and Cabs.

Hey Doug,

I tried to respond to your e-mail last week but the server kicked it back as undeliverable....maybe that's why you haven't had any nibbles. I probably just have a letter transposed in your address....

Anyway, here's my take:

You and I both bought our cars from the same dealer. We both paid a premium for flawless examples of the cars we wanted. I recently sold mine without much difficulty, but....I took a bath. This does not disappoint or surprise me. I lost about $10k over 2.5 years. Cars (Porsche's too) are about as good an investment as fresh produce. The day I bought my car, I knew I'd never get my money back...but I was willing to pay a premium to get exactly what I wanted. This is a hobby, not a business. That is what was, and is, important to me...and I presume, to you.

Now I'll repeat my lecture from a few months ago:

Your car is not worth what you think it is. It is worth more to you than to anyone else because no one knows and loves the car like you do. I know you're buying a house, but I'll bet that you can still buy that house without taking a bath on your car. If not, price it at $20k and hope for the best.

I am looking for a G50 Targa (although I might eventually consider a Coupe). I just returned from a bad and costly experience in an attempt to buy an 88 Targa in Dallas. It was clearly misrepresented and I flew home, V1 in hand, without a car (was planning to drive it home). I've owned a 4spd 930 and 94 964, and the G50 has won me over. I've driven a few 915's (yours included) and must say that I much prefer the G50. I suppose if I came across a "killer" SC Targa for a good price, I'd give it a serious look, but I'd expect to pay substantially less than a 3.2.

OK, enough for now. Advertise the heck out of it if you want. You may still be disappointed with the response. Keep it and enjoy it, unless you absolutely have to, or want, to sell it. If so, grab the shampoo and get ready for bath time.

Just my 3.2 cents,

It seems from the responses what I feared most- price is too high unless the right buyer shows up (which could take quite a long time!). If this is the case, I will probably just keep it, drive the piss out of it, rack up the miles, take the kids to Macdonalds in it, and make it worth the $20k everyone seems to value it at. I've already purchased the house and I wanted something I could have fun in and not worry about, while sticking $5-10k in the bank for blinds, fences, ect. What you guys are telling me is that I already have the car I'm looking for-I just have to wear it out a little so I don't feel as bad when I sell it.

Doug,
Remind me never to buy a car from you...:(

There were some posts in this thread about "if the economy / stock market is so bad, why are luxury car sales up" and then "what does that have to do with a 1985 3.2"?

Here's my $0.02.

New car sales have a lot to do with interest rates and incentives. Few people are buying that 996 or new Merc / Bimmer for cash, most are looking at the monthly cash cost. So with interest rates being the lowest in decades, the real cost of a new car has dropped. Also car makers can boost sales through incentives - you probably noticed that new car sales boomed after 9/11 and have stayed pretty strong in '02, due to the incentives GM and Ford are putting on. Finally, when the economy / market falls the wealthy usually feel it after the poor. This is why the luxury goods retailers (LVMH, DeBeers, Tiffany, etc) felt the onset of the recession later than the mid-market and low-end retailers did.

OK, so that can't last. The economy has been crummy for quite a while, the market has given up 3 or 5 years of gains, and the start of the economic recovery is looking like the "jobless recovery" we enjoyed in the early '90's. Just within the last couple days I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about how luxury car sales are weakening. And we're starting to get a glut of used luxury cars, many recently off-lease - here in the Bay Area there are 350 BMW's listed in the SF Chronicle classifieds, almost 2X the number of Toyota listings, and you know there aren't 2X as many BMWs on the roads as there are Toyotas.

So my view is that is why luxury car sales are up and that's why they are not going to stay up.

As to what that has to do with a 1985 3.2, I think the idea that you can sell a 1985 911 for anywhere in the ballpark of a 993 is not realistic. As the 993's get more plentiful and used luxury car values drop, that's got to push down values for the older Porsches. I recently bought a 1989 3.2 and I didn't even bother calling on cars listed above $25K.

Last food for thought - remember what happened to Porsche in the last recession? The company nearly went bankrupt. Remember what happened to collector car prices in the '80's? They zoomed up, then we had a bubble in Ferraris and whatnot, then prices bombed.

Whoever was looking at stocks, please let me know what you think about Porsche and BMW? I was thinking about investigating these as shorts.

I just paid A LOT less, like almost half, for a higher mileage '87 Targa that is very clean and has been meticuosly maintained. Records an inch thick. That sort of maintained....anything and everything was taken care off...tech bulletins, minor oil leaks....you name it.

Price and advertising.

Done beating the dead horse.

Doug,

I detect a note of sarcasm in your response (perhaps I'm wrong here). Please be assured, there is nothing but honest response from a forum of experienced Porsche people. Somehow I have a feeling you won't let your kids spill their chocolate Macdonalds shakes on your leather upholstery. Keeping a car nice is important for many reasons beyond resale value....but you already know this. I've seen the pride you take in your car, this won't go away even if the market drops its value to $5k.

Keep enjoying it. Drive it hard. Do some DE's. Take good care of it and it'll be the bargain of the century for you. It's a great car that you can now start really enjoying for its intended purpose.

Have fun!