Driving a Sportomatic

[stutt66]

I was always curious how a sportomatic Porsche drove, but never had the opportunity to drive one. Anyone who owns or has driven one, can you share how they are to drive.
Thanks,

[Dmitry at Pelican Parts]

Anyone have experience with a Sportomatic?

[Daves911L]

I've had 2. Both '69 cars. One a T and the other an E. I liked the sporto. Its different. Takes a little getting used to (mostly learning not to rest your hand idly on the gear change lever). But once you make the adjustment they are very pleasant cars to drive. They are not automatics. You change gears like in any normal car, you just don't have to depress a clutch pedal. The little bit of loss through the torque converter is noticeable, but not excessive, and a reasonable trade for convenient stop and go driving. An idea whose time came, and went, and is now just a footnote in history.

[72_sporto]

Don't know if it's "just a footnote".... isn't a Tiptronic a sporto wth an over-ride? Flappy paddles, the same?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by 72_sporto

Don't know if it's "just a footnote".... isn't a Tiptronic a sporto wth an over-ride? Flappy paddles, the same?

Not at all. A Sporto is a manual gearbox inside. A tip is an auto with manual control. Flappy paddles originated in sequential dogbox gearboxes. You are looking at driver interface, not actual gearbox design and function.

[72_sporto]

I meant in the sense of manual control without a foot clutch.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by 72_sporto

I meant in the sense of manual control without a foot clutch.

That's what I said. You are looking at a single thing that is the same.

[RSBob]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

That's what I said. You are looking at a single thing that is the same.

No Matt, you are wrong here. A sporto MUST be shifted, (it has no automatic mode) where more modern cars absolutely do not have to be shifted since they have automatics, which OPTIONALLY can be shifted manually. Very different.

I have driven a 69 T with a sporto, and they work just like Matt states.

[Tippy]

Modern torque converters can provide massive torque outputs from lesser inputs.

It'd be cool to have a Sporto with a modern, torque multiplying converter!

[lpsalsaman]

My E46 M3 has an SMG, the tranny is a manual with an automatic clutch. When in manual you have to shift the gears once you reach the revs for it, if not it will not go to the next gear. I guess the Sportomatic works the same, as you have to shift at a certain revolutions for that gear to go to the next one. I would love to try driving one, it would be interesting!

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by RSBob

No Matt, you are wrong here. A sporto MUST be shifted, (it has no automatic mode) where more modern cars absolutely do not have to be shifted since they have automatics, which OPTIONALLY can be shifted manually. Very different.

I have driven a 69 T with a sporto, and they work just like Matt states.

Wat? Am I right or am I wrong?

ps. Where did I say anything about shifting or not shifting a sporto?

[McLovin]

I've driven one (a factory 914-6 sporto!)

They are weird. The worst part about it, I felt, was the torque converter. It was a typical 60s style torque converter, i.e., a very disconnected feel.

As I recall, you could leave it in first gear (or second or third gear) at a stoplight, then just motor away as you would with an automatic. So in city stop and go traffic, you could leave it in first second or third and drive it just like an automatic - never touching the shift lever and using only the gas and brake.

But the oddest feeling was accelerating, and having the car sound like a city bus or a car with a slipping clutch- where the increasing revs were not met with a corresponding increase in speed. The torque converter allowed a lot of "slip."

In that way, a Sporto isn't really mechanically a "clutchless" manual transmission. It's a hybrid manual/automatic, because of the torque converter. So, it drives like a hybrid transmission.

It's also not quite like a modern SMG type transmission. Those truly are manual transmissions that have an automatically actuated hydraulic clutch system.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Tippy

It'd be cool to have a Sporto with a modern, torque multiplying converter!

I believe the Sporto converter had some kind of torque multiplying ability (although maybe not like a modern one).

Because I remember trying to accelerate from a stop in third gear, and it did it fairly easily.

[Scott Douglas]

My old '78 Sporto was fun to drive.
It was a four speed retro fitted at the time of an engine rebuild. It originally came with a 3-spd.
The 3.0L could handle city driving in 3rd gear stop and go all day long.
Nothing is faster off the line in first as the 2500rpm stall speed of the converter allows for some really fast starts. I believe the converter is torque multiplying up until it locked up. But I'd have to check the literature to be positive.
The one thing I had trouble with was there's little to no engine braking and no double clutching.
Sporto equipped cars came from the factory with S brakes because of the lack of engine braking.
The key to getting my old car working correctly was figuring out a way to take the high amperage load off the small fragile shifter points. Once I did that it was really fun.

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I believe the Sporto converter had some kind of torque multiplying ability (although maybe not like a modern one).

Because I remember trying to accelerate from a stop in third gear, and it did it fairly easily.

Yes, understood. My point is, now you can actually request the torque multiplication ratio you want.

In drag racing, these things are accounted for.

Big power car, less multiplication to prevent driveline shock. Weak car, all you can get.

[Daves911L]

Originally Posted by McLovin

In that way, a Sporto isn't really mechanically a "clutchless" manual transmission. It's a hybrid manual/automatic, because of the torque converter. So, it drives like a hybrid transmission.

It's also not quite like a modern SMG type transmission. Those truly are manual transmissions that have an automatically actuated hydraulic clutch system.

Actually Matt described it quite well. The sporto is a manual transmission, internally almost identical to a 901/902 box. It stays in whatever gear you put it in with the lever. It has both a mechanical clutch, and a torque converter, sandwiched between the engine and the 4 speed (3 in later cars) manual gearbox. The clutch is vacuum actuated, triggered by electrical contacts at the base of the shifter when you move the lever. The torque converter allows you to stop and start without disengaging the clutch, and takes up the driveline slop of a small clutch engaging very quickly.

You can leave one in 3 or 4, and putter off very slowly from a stop light, if you want to. But starting from 1st, and running up and down through the gears like normal is the way to go. Drive one like you would any normal manual gearbox car, you just don't have to use your left foot. Unlike an automatic the sporto will not and cannot change gears for you. If you are in 1st, you will stay in first regardless of rpms or road speed, until you move the lever to 2nd.

I used to autocross the 69T sporto. It worked well. Quick off the line and out of corners. I did tend to lose the oil seal from the torque converter regularly, which seemed to be its achilles heel. Sharing engine oil with the torque converter was probably not the best engineering move. As noted above, it had big aluminum S calipers on all 4 corners. Never found it weird. Just different.

[Matt Monson]

People always seem to forget Elford rallied one. It's a great piece of technological history.

That 914-6 is a special car. I forget the exact number but weren't there only around 3 factory sporto teeners?

[72_sporto]

I've continuously owned my 72 for nearly 30 years. It was my daily driver for many of these. Like most of you I've also owned a lot of other cars. I kept the sporto.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased, but I think that there's a lot of misinformation about the way sportos drive. You can't just get in and hope be Fangio in 10 minutes. Like many of life's best experiences, they require a bit of effort and learning on the part of the participant. Some people "get them" some never do.

Over the years, I've come across many malfunctioning and badly setup cars that the owners thought were were working okay, and persevered with, thinking that that was how they were supposed to be working. I find my car almost indistinguishable in driving experience from a foot clutch car.

Even one of my close friends- who has owned a very nice 3.2/915 75 for the last 25 years- was recently surprised by how easy and fun my car was to drive. Simarly surprised comments from guys in the typ901 club.

Not sure however, if the fact that the rhd cars, with using the left hand to change, leads to a more "natural" flow than the lhd cars? I recently drove a lhd sporto for the first time and had to really concentrate.

My teenage daughter adapted to it very quickly. She loves the way the car drives and can't wait to drive it. New passengers universally think the car ahead of its time and can't believe that a 45 year old car has an "electronic" gear shift.

[shoooo32]

Vic Elford won the 84 hours of Nurburgring along with Jochen Neerpasch and Hans Herrmann in a 911R Sportomatic. The idea was that it would be less fatiguing on the drivers for such a marathon race.

I'd love to drive one just for the experience. It seems that the only people that speak negatively about sportomatics are folks that have never owned one.

[Puma]

When I drove one about twenty years ago it felt like my left leg had been cut off.

Seriously, that's the best way I can describe it.