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-   -   to MSD or not to MSD (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/735476-msd-not-msd.html)

jamesnmlaw 02-22-2013 12:13 PM

to MSD or not to MSD
 
My 1969 911t runs a 1967t engine, Weber carbs, single spark, conventional exhaust. Handling is set up very well. Not a race car, just DEs and a little fun-time track-time.

Wheel dyno and shows right at 110hp and 110ft lbs torque.

Would going with MSD or MSD like product give any improvement?

Mild winters, warm summers, no humidity, 6,000 ft elevation.

Jim Richards 02-22-2013 12:18 PM

I'd replace your CDI with an MSD if the CDI failed, otherwise, probably not. I can't imagine there's much performance improvement. On the other hand, I would readily replace the points with a Pertronix ignitor.

wwest 02-22-2013 12:20 PM

CDI type ignition systems have a much higher spark risetime therefore will fire a fouled plug much more reliably. Plus doing away with those distributor points...

Reiver 02-22-2013 12:46 PM

I've used an MSD in lots of vehicles old Triumphs, old Mercedes etc....always had a great outcome and it always imporved idle in every vehicle.
In most of the cars I kept the points as the hot spark kept the points from pitting or wearing...it is actually an erratic or weak spark that pits them.
With the MSD unit I'd get 12 to 15k miles from a set of points and they'd look new...I only changed them out because the spring would weaken.

James Brown 02-22-2013 01:47 PM

with a MSD unit, the points become the trigger signal, not the best but works. the improvements are hatter spark but no noticeable performance improvement, unless the old system is in poor shape. pertronics trigger is a good idea

304065 02-22-2013 01:54 PM

You don't say what ignition system you have. A 67 Normal engine (there is no T until 1968) would have had kettering-ignition, that is, points, condenser, coil, ballast resistor.

In this case upgrading the ignition would make a lot of sense. For technical reasons which can be found elsewhere on this web site, the Bosch coil has a hard time charging sufficiently for high-rpm operation.

I am no particular fan of CDI ignition, even though I have MSD on both cars at the moment. If I were you, I would try a "hot-spark" which is sort of an advanced version of a Pertronix Igniter-- it's a hall-effect trigger with current limiting. You run this in connection with a coil that has lower primary resistance than the original Bosch-- the higher amperage allowed by the modern electronics will charge the coil faster, and helps with the high-RPM operation, at the same time maintaining the long spark duration of an inductive (not CDI) setup. CDI has very short spark duration and the multiple spark thing, well that's just snake oil. Once the flame front is burning, another spark doesn't help.

304065 02-22-2013 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7289659)
CDI type ignition systems have a much higher spark risetime therefore will fire a fouled plug much more reliably. Plus doing away with those distributor points...

are you trying to say that they have a shorter risetime?

moneymanager 02-22-2013 02:51 PM

There will be zero performance change. But smoothness at low revs, if you open the spark gaps up, may improve.

mb911 02-22-2013 03:38 PM

I would never ever replace the stock system with MSd. I had several of my MSd systems fail over the years and bought em new and would be junk in less then a year wired correctly as to the instructions. they would overheat and shut down. We have 4 MSD GRIDS we tried to use on the Pro mod (2500 HP) and all 4 were garbage out of the box, MSD quality is just plain sketchy.

On my turbo I had 2 (6AL)of them only because it was my only option would not do it unless it was my only option

RSTarga 02-22-2013 03:45 PM

If you have just the Kettering system I would definitely do MSD and the pertronic conversion. If you have the Bosh CDI stick with it.
I've used MSD on several cars. I put one on an old Silver Cloud RR and it made a world of difference.
They are the trick setup, in old Carrera 4 cams, hiding the box, it's the only way to keep the plugs clean.

jamesnmlaw 02-24-2013 10:25 AM

Thank you all for your replies. I'll stay with what I have until I need to make a change. I appreciate all the advice.

Reiver 02-24-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reiver (Post 7289706)
I've used an MSD in lots of vehicles old Triumphs, old Mercedes etc....always had a great outcome and it always imporved idle in every vehicle.
In most of the cars I kept the points as the hot spark kept the points from pitting or wearing...it is actually an erratic or weak spark that pits them.
With the MSD unit I'd get 12 to 15k miles from a set of points and they'd look new...I only changed them out because the spring would weaken.

forgot one thing...if you keep the points no condensor and basically no adjustment or dwell issues...as long as they open/close you are good.


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