do these cars exist?

[nostatic]

Maybe I just have unreasonable expectations...

Example #1
SC or Carrera coupe, not red or white
decent original paint
rock chips, some dings and scratches OK
60-100K miles plus or minus
fairly clean interior, no dash cracks or rips
everything works
updates done to the engine, sound mechanicals
records and good maintenance
tight driver (most important)
$15K or less

Example #2
E or T
same as above except for mileage and perhaps allowing for a repaint
$10K or less (more for the E I know)

Perhaps it is better to find a solid car for a good price that needs some attention and go with that? I've been trying to find one that fits all the criteria, is presentable, and doesn't need a few $K dumped into it immediately. I'm beginning to think that the proper mindset is to assume that as soon as you buy the car you will spend a few thousand getting it right. My expertise working on cars is limited, so unless some Pelicanheads are willing to be bribed with food and beverage to assist in jobs (I can be taught..honest), I'm in checkbook-mechanic land. I can also trade out for web/computer or biochemistry work

[LeeH]

They do exist because your example #1 describes my car exactly... actually it's nicer. '84 Carrera (Targa), purchased with 83K documented miles for $14K. Concourse? No. But nice enough that it gets plenty of looks/compliments at the local car show. Most people think it looks like new. It has a few flaws, but they're minor and nobody notices them but me.

It seems tight... I've put 3000 miles on and not had to add any oil. I spent $900 to have it shipped to AZ from IL and have put around $1000 in it with things like mats, seat seam repair, new radio, etc.

Here's a few cars for sale here in Phoenix. Let me know if you'd like me to preview them for you:

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=101137654&dealer_id=&certified=n&max_price=&start_year=1982&end_year=1989&address=85048&search_type=used&make=POR&model=&min_price=&distance=25&advcd_on=n&advanced=n&color=&car_year=1986&ac_afflt=none

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=100267594&dealer_id=410393&certified=n&max_price=&start_year=1982&end_year=1989&address=85048&search_type=used&make=POR&model=&min_price=&distance=25&advcd_on=n&advanced=n&color=&car_year=1985&ac_afflt=none

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/6/0/28635860.htm

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/9/2/27075892.htm

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/9/4/28145294.htm

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/9/6/27075896.htm

This car belongs to one of our local Pelicans. High miles, but the top end was done and if you rolled the first digit back from 1 to 0 nobody would question it. I hear there's a special Pelican discount!

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=99198159&dealer_id=&certified=n&max_price=&start_year=1982&end_year=1989&address=85048&search_type=used&make=POR&model=&min_price=&distance=25&advcd_on=n&advanced=n&color=&car_year=1988&ac_afflt=none

[nostatic]

I forgot a couple of my criteria...coupe, not red or white. That blue one looks nice. The problem is I've seen plenty of cars that seem to fit the criteria based on the ad copy and description from the owner. What I find when I check the car out is somewhat different, ranging from optimistic to downright deceitful. I think I was asking the question not from what ads are out there, but what people have actually seen and/or bought recently. Also, the question of how realistic "ready to drive" is, or whether pretty much every car needs a few thousand in work/fixes.

Thanks for the offer though. I think I really need to "touch" the car instead of doing a long distance purchase. The right p-car has to exist in LA. But if I start getting really antsy I'll extend the search to AZ.

[pbs911]

Maybe I just have unreasonable expectations...

I'm beginning to think that the proper mindset is to assume that as soon as you buy the car you will spend a few thousand getting it right.

Hallalula! Nostatic has seen the light!

[Wayne 962]

Okay, here's Wayne's take on how to call on a car (applies to any car).

Start looking for your exact car, then broaden the search. Get numbers for ALL cars within your price range and call on them. You can get a good feel for good cars or bad cars from experience talking to people on the phone.

Get a checklist of questions to ask:

- Records
- Who drove the car
- Why selling
- Price negotiable
- Any accident damage?
- Recent maintenance
- What is wrong with the car.

(Partial list)

The last question is the most important. There is always something wrong or broken on the car. Even new, the cars had small problems. A good seller will go on and on about things that are wrong with the car that are very minor (like a stain in the carpet, etc.).

Remind the person on the phone that a PPI will expose all problems, and hint that it's better not to waste time. If the car is on the high end of the scale, ask them why they think their car justifies the higher price. Don't be rude, but you can be forward.

Ask them specific questions. When was the last time they had the valves adjusted? What types of brake pads are installed. An owner who cares and knows about their car will be more forthright (most people don't answer honestly because they just don't know enough about the cars), and will also show you that he knows what he's talking about, and has some clue.

Ask which brand and type of wax he uses on the paint. If he says, "Duh.... I think its the Costco brand, etc..." then you know that he wasn'f fanatical about caring for the car. Spend the $20 for Carfax, and use it a lot.

The goal here is to save yourself many useless trips. Although they also can be fun. Go to a lot that sells used Porsches. Although I wouldn't recommend buying one from a lot, it will quickly allow you to look at a lot of cars, and get an idea of what's out there.

Lastly, have patience. Some people wait a year before finding their perfect car. LA is the best place to buy - I'm sure that you're just not looking in the right places. Pomona usually has some nice cars for sale, although it can indeed be a crap shoot...

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Oh, and you're right. Factor in the spending a couple of $$$ to get the car right.

You will spend this money anyways to 'customize' it as soon as you get it (floormats, 930S wheel, etc.) so you might as well factor it into the price...

-Wayne

[86Carrera]

I was looking for option #1 two years ago and was surprised they didn't exist in L.A. Plenty of dogs and a couple low $30s prestine ones.

Finally bought an '86 Coupe in Iris Blue from an older IMB engineer in San Jose who bought it from another engineer at work.

I paid $18K, about the high end of your range. I put about $6K into it which was more than expected but in line with what everyone is telling you. I am delighted with it because it was in original condition when I bought it and the upgrades were done by mechanics I know and done right. Extremely tight car.

Not that I'm looking to sell but if I was I'd be asking $25K and take a little less but not much. I know there are not many like this to choose from. Market is very small for improved cars like mine or original ones like the one you're looking for and I bought two years ago.

I'm surprised you don't like the white or red, that would eliminate a lot of nice cars. If I could find a mint original white with black interior 87-89 Coupe I'd be in the market immediately. That's my favorite combination by far and I'd pay top dollar to get one.

If you pass on any like that let me know and good luck!
Pete
'86 Coupe

[LeeH]

I called about the Minerva blue car. It sold to the first person who called. A guy flew out from San Diego the next day and drove it home. Owner claims it was virtually perfect.

I guess the lesson to be learned here is to check the ads frequently and move fast!

PS This guy says he has a friend with a 62K mile '81 for sale that is amazingly perfect... other than replaced fender, hood, and salvage title. It's a silver coupe and he's looking for >$15K.

[nostatic]

I pretty much have followed that script for all the cars I've looked at. I have eliminated quite a few cars based on the phone call, but sometimes it seems like it is worth the drive to look at something even if the owner is somewhat clueless (ie low mileage, good price). What is amazing is that the answers I get on the phone often are not mirrored in the car. I always ask "what isn't currently working on the car?" and often times they'll say "everything works". Then when I get there, I have to bring up all the things I see. I've looked at but not even bothered driving a number of cars since they were either wrecked, beat, or not as represented. The good cars have got to be out there (this place is full of stories/owners), but they are few and far between, especially in this price range. I supposed this is because at this price point many of the owners either can't really afford to maintain the car, or are clueless about their toy. That just makes the search a bit more challenging.

The good part is looking at cars can be fun. I've met some interesting people, and while often times the cars are not quite right, it at least wasn't a waste of time. Other time when the owner downright lies, well those trips suck. I hope to make the next Pomona gathering and see what's there.

[LeeH]

Yep, I think there are a lot of buyers in this price range. I looked for quite a while and took a big leap buying sight unseen. I'm very picky/detail oriented/AR - whatever you want to call it - and could always find problems or excuses to pass on a car. I finally decided to take a chance. I may or may not have purchased my current car had I been given the chance to inspect it closely. But, once it was in my garage, it didn't take me long to make some improvements.

If I had found the same car in its CURRENT condition locally for what I paid plus the cost of improvements, I would have jumped on it!

This one sure looks interesting... other end of the country, but nothing that a PPI and big truck can't cure!

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=100109885&dealer_id=1394681&certified=n&max_price=&start_year=1992&end_year=1993&address=85048&search_type=used&make=POR&model=911&min_price=&distance=any&advcd_on=n&advanced=n&first_record=26&=&color=&car_year=1993&ac_afflt=none

[Milu]

I spent six months looking for my ideal car, a late 3.2 coupe. that didn't need money thrown at it. I was flexible on colour, I just didn't want any wacky colours or a blue interior. I went all over the place looking at what seemed good cars at the market price. In the end I rationalised that what I was spending searching could go towards a really mint car with a warranty from a reputable dealer. I ended up paying well over market price for a great car that was my exact ideal spec with every option I wanted such as lsd and sports seats. When I wanted to buy a second coupe to use every day, I didn't waste anytime or money and again bought the best I could find to my exact spec, (and paid well over market price again). The warranty was worth the peace of mind and quality remains long after you've forgotten the price. If you're not enjoying the hunt perhaps you're being pennywise and dollar foolish.

Nostat,
I think the answer is that you can probably get very close to the car that you describe. The 79 that I found 3 months ago fits most of the description and was less than the 15K.

If you are really serious, then focus on the exact car you want, post the requirements here, and you'll mobilize a pretty large network of friends looking for the right one.
Mark

[puzurinshushinak]

This sounds like another argument for Wayne to go into the brokering business.

Wayne, how many hours would it take you to find a creampuff-ish SC at $13k that you could sell to nostatic at $15k?

[pwd72s]

"do these cars exist?"


Nostatic? Sure they exist. But not at the prices you want to pay... and perhaps not at any price. I know it sounds stange, but some people get an emotional attachment to their cars. When that happens, "not for sale" means exactly that...

[nostatic]

But pwd I'm answering ads, so presumably the owners want to sell. If I was going up to random p-cars on the street and begging them to sell me their car, that would be another thing.

Hey..now there's an idea.

Actually I understand the attachment thing quite well. I still miss my '67 Bug, my '65 Strat, and my Davidson Stilleto. I think I have to find an enthusiast that is moving on to another p-car...

[Zeke]

Perhaps it is better to find a solid car for a good price that needs some attention and go with that? I've been trying to find one that fits all the criteria, is presentable, and doesn't need a few $K dumped into it immediately. I'm beginning to think that the proper mindset is to assume that as soon as you buy the car you will spend a few thousand getting it right. My expertise working on cars is limited, so unless some Pelicanheads are willing to be bribed with food and beverage to assist in jobs (I can be taught..honest), I'm in checkbook-mechanic land. I can also trade out for web/computer or biochemistry work

I agree that your expectations on price don't match your wants. I'm not an expert, but I've bought and sold a bunch of cars. When people want to sell because of other needs, you have the advantage. The rest are just casting for a fish. You will find a car being sold by a motivated seller and it won't be perfect. In your position as a *check book mechanic,* I would consider interior flaws such as seats that need to be refaced. That isn't something you would do yourself anyway and the cost is not that bad. Tires? Of course. You wanted your brand anyway. So $700 there and you're good to go. Tight? Well, as simple as it is to install suspension bushings and have a 4 wheel alignment shouldn't hold you back. Throw on a set of shocks @ a buck fifty each and it will ride like new. So what have we spent here theoretically so far? $2500? A real good detail job and you got a show car.

The list goes on. Brakes? They can be done easy. (Most of the time). So what's left? Good paint is a big plus and a big ticket item if it's not. Good drive train a must. Find this car and hope that there IS something wrong with it so you have some leverage. Most money I ever made with a car is by putting new wheels and tires on it and cleaning up the interior (It was a Mercedes 250SE sunroof coupe that I refinished the wood on the dash and refaced the seats). I made $3000 in two weeks.

Some of this stuff is really too simple, but many sellers are lame about getting the appearance items done. And they should be, they probably wouldn't get all their money back. It would just sell faster. Keep looking and good luck.

BTW, I missed a '99 Boxster by a day because I didn't keep calling, I just left a message. They traded it in to the dealer. It was up for $29,900. Showed up at the dealer two days later for $35,900. I bet he gave them 27,000 or LESS.