Question on upgrading 2.2 T Engine
 

Question on upgrading 2.2 T Engine
Hi guys,

hope that here are some guys who can help me.

We are planning to upgrade our 911 2.2 T engine. We already have the SSI and a special stainless steel exhaust. And a RSR styled stainless steel oil tank.

We may want to go to build a 2.5 engine. What would you do on upgrading and which parts?
Or what would your choice be to do with a 2.2 case?!

Thx to all.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1362562155.jpg
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1362562186.jpg

Dino,

Lots of folks here who can help guide you in an engine upgrade here (and in the engine rebuilding forum, probably better). But there are some things everyone will want to know. The first questions are why? Is the engine running now? Are there problems that make a rebuild necessary in the first place? Second, what's your rough budget? Even a fairly simple rebuild of a running engine will run several thousand dollars. Any upgrades you wish to do will add to this quickly. Without knowing this its impossible to give advice.

Lastly, in this forum you really should have read and absorbed Wayne Dempsey's Engine Rebuild Book, which will answer many of your questions in much more detail than anyone here will want to do.

All that said, I (and many others) have done more or less what you're thinking about doing, 2.2 -> ~2.4. But it basically takes opening the case to replace crank and rods. You can bore out the cylinders a little and get custom pistons to increase displacement a little further, but not much. To go larger takes extensive case modification.

Mike

Your cylinders are cast iron so are easy to bore out. E and S were biral-iron liner with AL fins. Boring the cylinders to 86mm gets you 2.3L. 89mm gets you almost to a 2.5L(2.46). Order some JE forge pistons at the diameter and compression you want. have the cylinders bored to match. Re-jet your carbs and off you go. I have a 69E. Always liked the pull of the 2.4 from 72-74. So I bought some used 2.2T cylinders bored them out to 86mm and bought 9.5:1 JE pistons. Torque improved a lot. Great engine. Remember the 2.4L engines had an actual displacement of 2.36L. So with an 86mm bore you are within 60cc of a 2.4. If you do this, be sure to change your cams. Of course I already had E cams.

Have fun.

A 2.2 liter "T" engine is fitted with a non-counter weighted crank, so it's not ideal for a high revving (7K + rpm) engine. Your cylinder heads, however, are perfect for use in a mild hot rod. They have 46mm/40mm valves, and no injector holes to mess with/weld closed, if you're going to stay with carbs. Unfortunately, your Zenith 40 TINs are not ideal for hot rod use either, usually requiring replacement with Weber or PMO carbs.

Your best bang for the buck, in my opinion, would be to install 2.2 E piston/cylinders, use either Solex cams (aka 4.2 cams), or 911E cams. You can do some light porting to the heads, and install a set of Webers, which will give you the flexibility of different venturis, emulsion tubes, and jet sizes. This certainly won't be the most powerful conversion you might consider, but it will deliver very long life and good reliability, along with really decent performance.

My experiences agree with jstobo. Best bang for the buck with the bore increase and better cams.
I have had good luck with the Zenith carbs. Jets are available as well as venturis. if you go 89 mm bore then you may like to increase venturi size. Next step would be to open up the intake port and the bottom of the manifolds a few mm.

Why such a disbelief in non-CW 66mm cranks? Everyone keeps telling how it is not good, but has anyone actually had any problems with them?
If there has been failures because of the non-CW crank I honestly would like to hear about it.

Most of the engine builds are not performed nor from the best parts neither with best possible mods, pretty much anything is a compromise.

No "disbelief" at all, and I apologize if you got that from my post. I only mentioned the non-CW crank issue to point out that it wasn't ideal for use in a 7500-8500 rpm engine. That's why I suggested that using 911E components, and possibly 4.2 cams, was a good solution for a great street engine; and a way to avoid crank/rod replacement.

My shop built a few engines with that 6800 rpm (red line) configuration, and I can safely say that they were long-life reliable, smooth, and suitable for daily drives. If a customer insisted on "S" or wilder cams, and a higher top end, we discouraged him from starting the project with a 2.2 T engine.

mod to a 2.5L with modern version of an e grind

Have a friend that had his 2.2 non CW rebuilt with high Comp. Pistons and S cam's. Eventhough we always thought it ran à little lumpy it had 180hp on dyno and ran for 4 years in classic rally's before major problems... And even then the CW crank was not THE problem, turned out the shop that did the rebuilt had mixed à S Cam and à E Cam :/

Looking into upgrading my own 69 non CW engine now with 86mm cylinders and E cam's :D

Install a 2.4 crank and rods and E cams. Vroom vroom.

Your magnesium case may be a limiting factor. A T case may not have seen as much heat/stress as more powerful engines but, at the very least, you will need to install case savers for head studs. Many of these old mag cases need the case halves decked (shaved so the halves fit perfectly together again, no gasket) then line bored so you can use STD bearings. Then, you will probably want the oil bypass modification and piston oil squirters. And, if you go to 90mm P/C’s, the spigots will have to be enlarged to 97mm, something I’ve been told is risky for anything but fortified “7R” cases. That will add up quickly to the point where it may be easier to justify a 3.2 swap and put the 2.2 on the shelf.

Here's a thread on this subject from 2002 with a lot of great info from Warren (Early S Man) and Bobby (Bobboloo).