What is this Swedish 72S worth?

[evren]

I've been trying to locate a decent early-S for a while. Here is one that I recently came across, and would like get the Board's opinion first before proceeding any further (ie go see it). Also, any recommendations for a mechanic in Sweden for a ppi would be appreciated. The asking price is Euro 16,000. Thanks in advance....
===================
Attached is a candid description of the car from the owner:

Completed for delivered to Hany Porsche Center in Stuttgart 01/01/1972.
Cardex information:
Chassis # 911 230 0504
Engine # 6329062 (911/63)
Gearbox # 620 444 (Sportomatic)
Colour # 8080 (Silver)
Key # XXXXX
Dealer name: 115
Delivery date: 19720101
Options:
405 ?
416 ?
425 Rear window wiper
439 Porsche name on side
441 Radio speaker and antenna
571 Fog lights
615 ?
650 Sunroof

Others extras that I have failed to match with option codes. Electrical windows, Inertia safety belts and Green windows.

History:
Car was imported to Sweden 1977. It was driven up to 1981 when the engine and gearbox was changed to a 911 gearbox. At that time the colour was changed to black and the car was modified with RS-73 rear fenders, new external rear-view mirrors, all black floor mats, RS-74 style rear bumper. At that time it got new adjustable Koni and rock panels (only the out wards,
not internal). The new engine gave up the same year after just a few hundred kilometres and the car was put up in a warm garage. The car changed owners and got a new engine but was never driven more than a few hundred miles up till 1998. At that time the car was taken to a VAG repair shop and got new
brakes. The callipers are factory rebuilt and the disks are new (cost 30 000 SEK). The car was then sold to a new owner. The car was the used during summers and driven some 300 kilometres. I bought the car last summer and have started to bring it back to original shape. Gearbox has correct specification and build year. It is sound. The engine is also correct but not with matching numbers. The engine was completely rebuilt 8 years and 2 500 Swedish Miles back. The cost for part was the 30 000 SEK. I see no traces of accidents accept for that the rear left fender seems to be changed in the -70:s.

The car feels sound and is a great driver.

Current specifications:
Engine # 6321050 (911/53). From other –72 S with manual gearbox, hence 911/53.

Gearbox 915/01
Total number of miles on car ca 11 000 Swedish Miles.
Total number of miles on engine ca 12 000 Swedish Miles.
Number of miles on engine after rebuild ca 2 500 Swedish Miles.


It has 7x15 and 8x15 Fuchs with RE71 tires. It has the original small external rear-view mirror. I have had the floor in front of the
gasoline tank with original sheet metal. The is a small rust "attack" on the back part of the right front fender. It where the dubbel sheet meatal is. The inner rock panels were not changed but seems OK. You can easaly lift the car with the original jack without any "sounds". I went under the car when I bought it but I remeber it as surprisingly sound. There are som
"rising" in the paint behind the front lid. I belive it's surface rust under the paint, as its often are on old repainted cars.

Original steering wheel comes with car. The is also some new ubber and stuff for the electrical sunroof.

The black paint is not that good. My opinion is that it's a "honest"
car that with some "detailing" will easily turn in to real beauty.

[pwd72s]

Evran, I hope the euro isn't worth much. There is a phrase about horses in the western USA. It's used to describe a horse in seriously sad condition: "Ridden hard and put away wet." That phrase applies to the car pics posted. This car should be put out of it's misery...stripped of usable parts, of which there are probably few, and then sent to the crusher. It's a parts car, in my opinion...and might be worth $6,000 USA. Now I'll brag a bit...this is what a decent '72S looks like here in Oregon...

[cegerer]

Well, this obviously isn't going to be a concours candidate, but it appears to be headed in the right direction! S motor, MFI retained, sport driver's seat, back-dated bumper to original, etc. RS flares? Period-correct, so OK in my book.

Sure doesn't sound like the seller is holding anything back. Interesting and fairly complete history. I think the price could be in the ballpark if everything mechanical checks out on a PPI and the rust isn't too bad. But plan on $10k just for a decent exterior restoration. Could be a money pit, but if you plan on keeping for a long time - who cares?!

Nr. 405: Front seat with reinforced springing, left
Nr. 416: Raised steering wheel
Nr. 615: ???

-- Curt

Paul: $6000?? Were you out drinking beers in Pomona with Wayne last night?

[pwd72s]

Curt...check the decals missing on the engine pic. Then look at the cross piece itself...poorly welded in. This car has seen some serious crashing, I'd guess...It's a money pit all right, with, in my guesstimate, fresh paint covering up some serious stuff. I'll stick with my parts car theory. Sorry but I wouldn't walk away from this car, I'd run...

[Zendalar]

Euro equals pretty much $. $ is only a bit more worth. I just saw an ad on a german autotrader and they were selling pretty decent cars for a pretty decent price. One 1977 2.7 was going for 6100 euros. And some others under 10000 euros, pretty good looking.

I will check out the website address tomorrow, its on my work computer.

[cegerer]

"Sorry but I wouldn't walk away from this car, I'd run..."




Yikes!! Please forgive me. I was drinking decaf this morning and wasn't fully awake yet .... -- Curt

[pwd72s]

DECAF??? Gawd, you're stong, Curt. Let's see, for me? Two cups of joe in the morn, then bout 1:00 or so, a couple of double espressos..
Me? A Caffeine junkie? Well, I do like my bourbon before dinner as well... Tell ya, it's hell to get old, have to reduce your vices as much as I have...

[aseem]

Please note. When the seller referes to Swedish Miles that is 10 kilometers. Its actually "Mil" wich is short for 10 Km.

Evren, I think you are better off looking in Germany. Norway, Sweden and Denmark has some of the highest car prices in the world due to extremely high tax on autos plus other governmental ***** that cost car buyers a lot of money. This will stick with the car thoughout its lifetime, and thus make Scandinavia an expensive marked to shop for used/old cars. For instance, my '80 930 cost me $41K a year and a half ago.

Im not too familiar with german autotraders, as German is not my favourite language (to read) but there is http://www.automobile.de wich is well known.
In England i always look at http://www.autofarm.co.uk They ar well known for their pre '74 knowledge, or http://www.fuchs.co.uk



Good luck

[beepbeep]

Well this makes me think.

Me being laid-off , i'm selling my 81' 930 for ~16000 euros ... that's around 15500US$, and i find it a fair price (i need to get rid of it soon as this lay-off was a bit unexpected)

So if i'm selling a 81' TURBO in pretty decent condition for same as this dead horse of 72S then somebody is out of his mind...probably both of us.

So please tell me, am I stupid for selling it too cheap or is this price total nosence??? 16000 euros for 72' S??? Gimme a break!

Here's the add: (sorry for this shameless plug)

http://195.22.79.154/temp/930/

[silverc4s]

Goran,

Sorry to hear of your work misfortune. There are a lot of layoffs here in the US now too, as you probably know.

I wish that your car was here and for sale for that money. I would say that it's a good buy at that price. Really nice 3.3 930s should be worth more than 20,000 euros there I would think, if no rust and no stories.

Sadly here in the Us almost all 930s of this era were "gray market" cars, and have been butchered up beyond recognition usually. Good luck selling..

[Cornpanzer]

Originally posted by pwd72s
This car should be put out of it's misery...stripped of usable parts, of which there are probably few, and then sent to the crusher. It's a parts car, in my opinion...and might be worth $6,000 USA. Now I'll brag a bit...this is what a decent '72S looks like here in Oregon...

Ok, I probably wont make any friends by saying this.....but... What is it with 911 guys that they cant truly ever restore an early 911. These are not disposable cars. Paul, you are probably correct that this car is overpriced and I probably wouldnt be willing to tackle it myself as my first 911, but dont you think that you comments were a little melodramatic? You are right that the rear panel doest look too healthy in that photo......but Im sure that I could effect a flawless repair using parts from all the other 911S's that you have apparantly sent to the crusher. Or maybe your motive is to crush all the other 911S's so that your car becomes rarer and more valuable???? =) (good looking car BTW) Seriously though...these cars are getting hard to find. Look at the absolute hulks of 356s that are being ressurected nowadays. I have seen the clips of two cars put together just to make something viable from the carcasses. Someday the 911 will be in the same boat. I really hope that there arent people out there who would actually crush a car like this. Someday you guys (yes, a stereotype I know) will actually need to learn to get your hands dirty and start restoring these things because the day of finding pristine original 911's is disappearing. Anyway....thats my two cents so feel free to tell me Im wet behind the ears, etc.... =)

[pwd72s]

Cornpanzer? You're wet behind the ears... That said? This car, judging by the pics, cannot be made right...not unless one is willing to spend more than it would cost to buy a cherry '73 RS. Keep in mind..I have a pretty good '72S...not restored to concours, just a good original. I'd swap it straight across for an RS in similar condition in a heartbeat. The rub, of course, is "similar condition". But to buy a trashed 911S, then spend $$$$ more to "restore" it to decent condition, when the same outlay could buy a better car? Like the song said, "only fools rush in where angels fear to tread..."

[Zendalar]

Ah, here's the website I was talking about:

http://www.klassikgarage.de/

and right now:

Porsche 911 SC 3,0ltr. Baujahr 1979, Tachostand 117000 KM (orig. Tacho)

verzinktes Chrommodell mit sehr robuster Technik, indischrot,

Innen Stoff Nadelstreifen, Sportlenkrad, 17" Cup-Felgen (kleiner Stilbruch-- Fuchs möglich!),

hydraulische Kettenspanner, spezial Leistungswärmetauscher aus Edelstahl,

neue Stehbolzen usw., top Technik!

Preis: 9900.oo€uro


Porsche 911 Coupe 2,7ltr. 165 PS, Baujahr 1977,

orig. Saharadiamantmetallic (436), Innen Leder Caramel, ATS- Felgen,

Color, E-Fenster, "schmales Chrommodell" mit Schiebedach, ungeschweißtes Original.

Leider mit Motorproblemen (raucht und klappert), zum herrichten

Preis: 7400.oo €uro


Porsche 911 2,7ltr. 165PS, Erstzulassung 1976, Verzinkt,

indischrot, Innen Stoff Caramel, 7 und 8x16" Fuchsfelgen,

Schiebedach, RS- Schürze und Carrera 3.0 Heckspoiler,

lange Zeit nicht zugelassen

Preis: nur 6150.oo €uro


There are just some.

[evren]

Guys,

Thanks for all the input... Looks like I'll be looking for a while longer. It seems that there is quite a lot of price variation among these cars, especially in Europe. I have seen a number of auctions on ebay, and ads in online sites like mobile.de, and prices for cars in good condition go up to $30,000 if not more.

Paul, let me know if you ever decide to sell yours! (you probably already have a long list of people in line)

Zendalar, aseem: thanks for the links, i will check them out.

I'm basically looking for a car with a good engine, minimal rust and no structural damage. I don't mind spending the time & money to fix it up, that's really what I'm looking forward too...

[Bo]

Goran - I actually have considered buying your car, if you would take MY 72S as partial trade, that is

[layzee]

Originally posted by evren

Attached is a candid description of the car from the owner:

Completed for delivered to Hany Porsche Center in Stuttgart 01/01/1972.
Cardex information:
Chassis # 911 230 0504
Engine # 6329062 (911/63)
Gearbox # 620 444 (Sportomatic)

Just a small thing - was the Sportomatic transmission available on the 'S' in '72? I thought not. Or is this a 71 MY?

[pwd72s]

Another question, and a good one. I dunno. I do know the sportomatic was dropped for obvious reasons, but I don't know exactly when. Speaking of Porsche snafus...anybody know when they gave up on the hydopneumatic struts?

[cegerer]

Pretty sure the Sporto was available on the S in 72 and 73 in Europe and the USA. Also, there were two 73 Carrera RS's with Sporto's. Each had an experimental 2.9L motor - one was Peter Porsche's and the other was Louise Piech's. Wonder where they are now!? -- Curt