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-   -   Well Crap. Engine Banging Noise (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/741370-well-crap-engine-banging-noise.html)

spuggy 03-29-2013 11:47 AM

I had to go count mine (because I always press the button when setting it).

Mine is solid on 5 clicks. You could go one more click to 6 if you were parking on the side of a mountain for added peace of mind, but it's doubtful that it's any better - probably just stretching the cable.

szyzygy 03-29-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spuggy (Post 7357847)
I had to go count mine (because I always press the button when setting it).

Mine is solid on 5 clicks. You could go one more click to 6 if you were parking on the side of a mountain for added peace of mind, but it's doubtful that it's any better - probably just stretching the cable.

how do you know the right position then if you hold the button?

Craig 03-29-2013 12:53 PM

szyzygy,

I don't really count the clicks, I go more by the position of the handle. Mine is now at about 20-25 degrees of angle - 4-5 clicks.
Mine was just like yours, about 11 clicks and at least up to a 45 degree angle.
It turns out that the parking brake activating 'arms' weren't connected.
You might have the same problem, but to check you have to take off the rotors and the parking brake drums.
Inside there you can see that the cable pulls on an actuator, which moves the 'arms', which cause the parking brake shoes to expand agains the drum. My actuating 'arms' were out of place and not touching the posts to expand the shoes.
So when I pulled on the cable, they eventually moved the shoes enough to grab, but not with any real holding force.
The fix is to just put the 'arms back in place. Once you see the setup, it will make perfect sense. I set the arms back in position to touch the post, and now it works just like new. I also used the adjuster to make sure they were just touching against the drum. Both side were off on mine.

It is a lot to take apart so you can check, but the fix was about a minute on each side and free. I fixed mine when I rebuilt my rear brake calipers 2 years ago, so everything was apart anyway.

As for the banging noise, I think you said that you can start it, and in neutral rev it up and down and there is no noise. To me, this says your engine is ok, and the problem is 'downstream from there - the CV joints, or tranny related.

Good luck!
Craig

javadog 03-29-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szyzygy (Post 7357852)
how do you know the right position then if you hold the button?

If all you want to do is check the adjustment, just pull it up slowly without pushing in the button and count the clicks...

JR

spuggy 03-29-2013 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szyzygy (Post 7357852)
how do you know the right position then if you hold the button?

Tension on a parking brake ramps sharply as soon as the slack is out of the cable (or the pistons move out of the caliper); you're compressing the lining material at that point.

It needs to be tight, but the parking brakes are designed to wedge, IIRC. So it just needs to be set so the linings are compressed/biting into the drum/disk they set on.

Feel the tension; set the handbrake firm, but feeling like it will go one more click (with appreciable effort), two if you were to godzilla it.

That only applies if the brake is in good working condition and adjusted correctly. Junkers, you do whatever you need to to stop them rolling away...

NeedSpace 03-29-2013 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szyzygy (Post 7357606)
Thanks

Those inner CV joints are hard to get to - do I take the wheel off?
Do I just squeeze them? What am I feeling for? Or is it just if they make noise?

You don't necessarily have to take the wheels off to remove the CV joints, but I do find it easier. You'll want to put this up pretty high, you may want to buy or borrow ramps. Be careful if on jack stands, you will rock the car a little bit and you DO NOT want it falling on you...Rebuilding the CV joints isn't that hard, even with little experience, what is available on this site should guide you through it. This is one of the first fix I did on cars many years ago (at 17 years old). I am happy that the noise isn't the engine. Easier to fix, plus, wouldn't require a porsche specialist (unless of course a tranny issue).

This has the work I did and the best links I found to do this on the site. One of them is a video which you can watch to determine if you think this is beyond your ability.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/664950-1976-911s-garage-find-road-4.html#post6736797

I agree with others that one of your rubber boots is coming apart, the passenger side. To remove these, you have to unscrew 6 bolts on each side of the cv joint. This may or may not be the cause of the noise, but they need doing anyway.

This is what mine looked like before I repaired it
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1322279348.jpg

This is what it looks like after I repaired it. Here, next to the rubber boot are the 6 bolts I mentioned. This could be a star type socket or a regular hex (allen wrench). Pretty cheap to purchase either of these at craftman.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336529826.jpg

The left hand side of this picture shows the part that connects to the wheel. Under the little hubcap, there is a cotter pin and a big bolt that holds this in.

This is where the other side of the axle screws into the transmission. The round area with the black grease. Here you can see the 6 bolt holes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331521583.jpg

and here are all the parts of the CV joint laid out.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1322968638.jpg

Not the greatest shot, but here you can see it without the engine. The left side pic show the axle hanging on a fan belt. The right shows you can take axle out without taking wheel off.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1325222482.jpg

NeedSpace 03-29-2013 07:26 PM

This is what your sway bar should look like. This could cause noise, but for me it was more of a creaking noise and not related to acceleration. Although, if you are going over bumps, your broken piece could make a lot of banging. Here is an easy test, remove your sway bar completely off the car and take for a drive. If the noise goes away, you have found your problem. You can drive the car without the sway, won't handle great but for a quick test drive it shouldn't harm anything. Oh, I still think your right side CV boot is ripped and should be replaced.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344915021.jpg

DRACO A5OG 03-29-2013 09:37 PM

Nice use of the Ribbed Belt, really all that is good for :-)

Andrew, you should get 4-6 click's, remember when you lived in cali, we were going to take care of it but you had to leave for VT :-(

Anyways, how is the CV and mount issue?

szyzygy 03-30-2013 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG (Post 7358774)
Nice use of the Ribbed Belt, really all that is good for :-)

Andrew, you should get 4-6 click's, remember when you lived in cali, we were going to take care of it but you had to leave for VT :-(

Anyways, how is the CV and mount issue?

Yep, I remember (referenced you earlier in regards to this)

I went down that night and tried to check it out (described earlier in this thread). I'm not sure that is the problem or which wheel it is (or both). I'm putting in long hours at work due to a huge workload so I haven't been able to spend as much time on it. I don't want to buy any parts until I am positive of what the problem is.

I'll keep ya'll posted!

szyzygy 03-30-2013 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedSpace (Post 7358612)
This is what your sway bar should look like. This could cause noise, but for me it was more of a creaking noise and not related to acceleration. Although, if you are going over bumps, your broken piece could make a lot of banging. Here is an easy test, remove your sway bar completely off the car and take for a drive. If the noise goes away, you have found your problem. You can drive the car without the sway, won't handle great but for a quick test drive it shouldn't harm anything. Oh, I still think your right side CV boot is ripped and should be replaced.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344915021.jpg

thanks. I'll look into this this weekend (I hope). If I can get mine reattached (looks like the bolt is still there, maybe just screw it back in), some new rubber bits are all I need?

szyzygy 03-30-2013 07:17 AM

Thanks for all your input guys

Could someone please chime in about what tranny issues this might be?
I haven't noticed any previous problems with it. I replaced the shift coupler, clutch cable and did a clutch cable adjustment (with Draco's guidance/help). Also replaced the tranny oil a year ago (with Draco's guidance/help).

Does a tranny act up under cold weather conditions? Can the fluid freeze or something? It was really cold that day. about 20.

Lapkritis 03-30-2013 07:38 AM

Having some mild weather now up here. Maybe try driving it without the sway bar as suggested? Was it for sure a mechanical clunk or a misfire? Broken headstuds could make a racket on a cold engine.

Trans fluid won't be frozen at 20F.

Clunking from a transmission could be ring and pinion, foreign object such as a bolt head or nut tossing about and catching in the moving gears, etc.

szyzygy 03-30-2013 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapkritis (Post 7359163)
Having some mild weather now up here. Maybe try driving it without the sway bar as suggested? Was it for sure a mechanical clunk or a misfire? Broken headstuds could make a racket on a cold engine.

Trans fluid won't be frozen at 20F.

Clunking from a transmission could be ring and pinion, foreign object such as a bolt head or nut tossing about and catching in the moving gears, etc.

I'll try the sway bar removal.
It was a mechanical clunk. Would the headstud problem present itself anytime the engine is running (not just when in gear and travelling?)

Lapkritis 03-30-2013 08:32 AM

Depends. When you're trying to drive you're increasing the pressure inside the combustion chamber.

szyzygy 03-30-2013 10:01 AM

Ok, I just checked the CV joints again on both sides. No play in them at all. I could move the bars in and out a little, especially on the passenger side. The inner passenger boots (inner and outer) both look they are not tight at all and probably could stand to be replaced.

So I took her out for a spin, no noise except the loose sway bar and the sweet tone of the flat-six. I drove past the grocery store by and got a "sweet car bro, that is sexy"
Drove down the street a mile or so and back, did not get that same issue as before. Is it something that will come and go?

NeedSpace 03-30-2013 12:11 PM

Did the noise increase in speed with the engine? It is starting to sound like the noise you would hear if your pretensioners are going bad. those could happen from time to time.

The big thing you should try to figure out is whether the issue is an engine issue or tranny / axle issue. The sway bar would be more of a knocking noise under the car. I don't think it would be continuous and shouldn't increase proportionally with speed. If the speed is proportional with speed, then does it match the engine speed or match the wheel movement speed. Wheel movement speed continues as you go faster, but engine speed will increase to a point, then decrease when you switch gears.

This sounds really basic, but once you figure this out, it makes it easier to track down what could be causing it.

szyzygy 04-01-2013 11:22 AM

My car passed inspections here today.

DRACO A5OG 04-01-2013 09:12 PM

Wow, even with a broken sway mount, nice :-), probably blinded the inspector how pretty she was :D

Lapkritis 04-02-2013 07:08 AM

The Vermont inspection can be a tongue in cheek experience.

Is the vehicle currently on fire?

Congratulations, here's your sticker. :p. :)








-Andrew

E Sully 04-02-2013 09:38 AM

CV BOOT MADE EASY - YouTube


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