Mystery VIN???

[jwalan63]

Today I purchased a 1972 911T Targa. VIN# Stamped under the hood is 9112113583.

The sticker is damaged and the silver plate is absent.

This VIN falls outside the published numbers used by Porsche. It does not appear to be altered, tampered with, or otherwise fraudulent.

Did I mention the title has a VIN number that is not even a Porsche number, has letters in it, and the original is lost.

Quite a conundrum. Any advice out there? I have no money to pay for it.

[jeffs9146]

It is a 72 911T

1972 911 21x 0001 2.4L (2341cc) 8.0:1 915/12 Mech Fl

Pelican Parts: 911 Tech Info - Chassis & Engine Info

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by jwalan63

Today I purchased a 1972 911T Targa. VIN# Stamped under the hood is 9112113583.

The sticker is damaged and the silver plate is absent.

This VIN falls outside the published numbers used by Porsche. It does not appear to be altered, tampered with, or otherwise fraudulent.

Did I mention the title has a VIN number that is not even a Porsche number, has letters in it, and the original is lost.

Quite a conundrum. Any advice out there? I have no money to pay for it.

If I understand your post correctly, your biggest problem is not the legitimacy of the stamped VIN, it's the fact the title document does not match the VIN on the car. If the VIN on the document is not found anywhere on the vehicle, then you do not have title to that car. Also, it is not clear what you mean by, "the original is lost." The title document may be for a reissue VIN sometime in the past of the car but if so, there would be a sticker with that same VIN, issued by the DMV, somewhere on the car.

What state are you in? Someone there may offer some help but as I see it, you have a car with a mystery VIN and you do not have a legal title to it.

[copbait73]

First stop is the DMV but beware you may have a stolen car.

[jwalan63]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

The problem with the VIN is that according to everything I can find, VIN #s for 1972 911T Targas fall in the range of 0001 to 1821 ONLY.

Further, this is not even a number that would have been used on a coupe, an S or any other model that year.

Getting a replacement title is easy, even getting a bonded title in Texas, no problem. We already checked and the car is NOT stolen.

The problem I have is I can not yet verify that this is a valid issued VIN# from Porsche, that would solve my problem, I think.

[47silver]

do you have the engine number? that may narrow it down
could it be a special delivery number from Porsche an in house car?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by jwalan63

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

The problem with the VIN is that according to everything I can find, VIN #s for 1972 911T Targas fall in the range of 0001 to 1821 ONLY.

Further, this is not even a number that would have been used on a coupe, an S or any other model that year.

Getting a replacement title is easy, even getting a bonded title in Texas, no problem. We already checked and the car is NOT stolen.

The problem I have is I can not yet verify that this is a valid issued VIN# from Porsche, that would solve my problem, I think.

So I guess what you really want is a title document that matches the VIN stamped into the car and also confirmation that the stamped VIN is original to the car, correct? If that's the case, the only way I know is to get a COA from Porsche, though those are increasingly sketchy in accuracy/completeness.

Just curious. You have a car without a known VIN and missing VIN tags, with a title document that does not match the car, and that doesn't bother you?
Yet, your problem is you can't identify a stamped VIN in the sheet metal. As it sits, nothing about the identity of that car is valid, so why such a concern about tracking down the stamped number? Not accusing or criticizing, it just doesn't make sense to me. If you know the car is not stolen and you can easily get a reissued title, what does it matter? Why not just get a new title document that matches the VIN and be done with it? Unless this is all just to track down a mystery VIN. Then, it's not really a problem, it's curiosity.

[djpateman]

Well, this would not be the first error made by Porsche. In the last week I have worked with one fellow whose car has a twin with the same VIN, and another whose production #'s do not match; both appear to be stamping errors by Porsche from all the details that I am privy to. So what is another mystery to help figure out. So to start we need to get further info from the car to help identify what it is. The body will have a production # stamped into the dash frame under the knee pad, and below the radio opening; this # will also be written in grease pencil on the top of the dash between the windshield and the instruments but the glass and dash pad have to come out. The engine and transmission serial #'s are most useful. Any dates on instruments or other components will help establish a date of construction. All this helps to point to the correct VIN.

[jeffs9146]

Could it be a sporto? Is the engine 911/61?

I don't know what "wei T US" means in this chart under the serial number colomn?

Fahrzeugidentifikation Porsche 911 1972-73

[jwalan63]

Again thanks everyone for your input.

Today, I got more info and I also e-mailed Porsche directly.

The Production# Stamped in the dash is 1121.
The Transmission # is 7411810
The engine in the car is not original it's a 1983 3.0.

This is clearly a special order car. The paint code is 936 9-3 which is a special order silver.

So far as why it's important to find out (for you LJ), I want to have a properly documented car should I decide to restore it. There is little to no value (parts value) if there are unresolved questions as to the legitimacy of the car's pedigree. However, IF I can solve this mystery, and document the correct VIN I can have a bonded/transferrable title from my state which increases the car's value both monetarily and historically.

[djpateman]

1981 trans
1121 is missing the last three digits
9112110583 is my best guess

[porwolf]

Originally Posted by djpateman

1981 trans
1121 is missing the last three digits
9112110583 is my best guess

Looks more like 9112113583 to me looking closely at the picture of the stamped number above.

[djpateman]

Wolfgang, it is difficult for the stamped # to be 9112113583 when the highest VIN produced was 9112111821 according to Porsche records. It could be a stamping typo by the body shop at Porsche, but who knows. What the owner wants to know is the correct VIN for the car, and that is what I am trying to help him determine.

[Matt Monson]

Is '72 somehow different than earlier years? I ask, because I am used to seeing vins stamped on a longer skinnier "plate".


That plate looks welded on to me.

[javadog]

Original 1972 VIN plate, for comparison:

[70SATMan]

No A pillar VIN tag either???

If you are doubting the VIN as a Targa versus a Coupe, it could indicate a front clip.

[X JBM X]

put a sheet of paper over the VIN, and attempt to do a pencil rubbing. maybe that'll help clear up the image....

[Matt Monson]

Thanks Javadog,
All the long nose cars I've owned have been 65-71, so wasn't sure about what a '72 vin looks like. It does appear that they are different.

[E Sully]

Matt the VIN stamp area by the smugglers box seems correct for that year.
jwalan63, How about a picture of the dash production number. Your 1121 is bit short on numbers.
Also, What is on the drivers side windshield post, A Pillar? There should be a VIN plate there also.
How about a picture of the Paint plate, drivers door jam.
As for increasing the value of the car, without the original front panel and A pillar vin plate, and matching number engine and transmission, there will not be much you can do. The cost of restoration and documentation will be far more than you will get on resale.

[Matt Monson]

What year did they stop stamping doors?

Sorry for the OT, just a curiousity thing, and it is obviously before '72 since nobody mentioned to check the doors.