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Hitorque starter / G50 ring gear meshing problem

The pics below are of a new Hitorque starter (IMI-101N) and new G50 ring gear. Well, they were a few weeks ago!
In three areas around the ring gear, the teeth are pretty much chewed up. I presume that this is where it is cranking against compression.
This is all on a new-build 3.6 conversion in my 88 Carrera which I have had more than a few problems getting started, but that's another book.

Chris at Hitorque has kindly offered to replace the starter pinion and I have also ordered a new ring gear from PP, but my concern is why?
Chris has been helpful and has recommended that a slightly larger diameter 10 tooth pinion would mesh deeper into the ring gear, but I don't understand why the standard 9 tooth pinion doesn't do the job. This is the starter that PP supplies for almost all 911 applications.
There is another obvious problem in that the pinion is only meshing with 3/4 of the ring gear width, but I can fix that with an extra 3 or 4mm of spacers to move the ring gear closer to the starter.

Interested in hearing from others who have had similar problem. I'd just like to be comfortable that I've got it licked with a new ring gear, 10 tooth pinion and ring gear spacer before I put it all back together again.





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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
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Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 07-03-2013, 04:17 AM
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With wear like that, across the top of the teeth, it looks like somehow the starter gear is too far away from the ring gear, like it needs to be moved closer to the centerline of the flywheel. Or the starter gear is too small of a diameter, maybe the wrong one was installed.

I'd certainly try to bench start the engine a few times with the new gear before installing the engine!

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 359k miles
Old 07-03-2013, 04:43 AM
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Some interesting reading
starter ring failure twice in 3 weeks. HELP!!
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete3799 View Post
Yes I've been looking at that thread. The problem there seems more like brittle teeth rather than a meshing issue.
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 07-03-2013, 05:13 AM
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If that a Tilton? if not get one, never had a problem with those, cheers.
Old 07-03-2013, 06:02 AM
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I had a similar problem with my G50 conversion. After failing several ring gears and trying multiple starter motors I finally figured out the issue. See in the attached thread.
Hi Torque Starter - HELP


Richard.
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Last edited by motley911; 07-03-2013 at 11:22 AM..
Old 07-03-2013, 11:20 AM
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Thanks Richard, I don't know how I missed that thread. Looks like exactly the same problem.
I just checked the teeth on my original starter and it has nine - I was kinda hoping for ten. Anyhow, IMI are sending me a larger ten tooth pinion and I'll definitely test it before I reinstall the engine.
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 07-03-2013, 02:33 PM
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Update

An update on this problem ...

My replacement pinion finally arrived yesterday but all isn't well.
Two problems ... one is that it is too short, the other is that its diameter is too large.

To fix my rapid wear problems, which looked to be caused by pinion not meshing deeply enough with ring gear, Chris at IMI suggested that I needed a 10T pinion instead of the standard 9T and kindly offered to send me one at no charge, however I just can't see this working based on the measurements below.
Measurements taken from the bell housing give me very close to 150mm from center of input shaft to center of starter. Correct?
With the 10T pinion fully meshing with a new ring gear on the bench, the minimum center to center distance with no clearance works out to be 150.7mm.
The 9T pinion c/c measures 149.3mm.
If actual c/c distance is 150mm, this means that the 9T pinion would run with 0.7mm radial clearance but the 10T pinion will have 0.7mm interference.

Clearly, the 10T pinion won't engage if it is too large, so it looks like I need to go back to 9T.

The other problem is that 10T pinion is about 7mm shorter than the original 9T pinion, so there is some screw-up there by IMI. That's a real PITA as I can't even assemble everything to check that the 10T pinion will or won't mesh because it's too fcking short to engage the ring gear.





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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 08-10-2013, 06:14 AM
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:14 AM
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