993 ppi/high miles+factory rebuilt?

[jerrykrug]

I have a deposit on the 993 with high miles 142K+ that was in the thread

`95 993 for under $30K

I need a few answers and advice please...
1) Good independant shop for a PPI in Jacsonville FL area
2) it had a rebuilt motor from the local porsche dealer about 50K miles ago, should be good for many more miles?
3) headroom in a 993 sunroof coupe vs 1980 Targa, I am 6'4" and need the seat back all the way in my targa with the roof on. I think the 993's are roomier?
4) They say it also had the wiring harness replaced and transmision (new) factory due to a recal.
5) any other info I should look out for?

Pelican rocks...Thanks in advance

[radcon]

There are plenty of 993s on eBay in the mid to high 30's with much lower mileage, 50 - 60K miles on most. I would think this high mileage car would nickel and dime you to death. A 993 may be your dream car, so it would probably not be a bad idea to save up the extra 10K for a low mileage one. You're going to either pay the money now or later - better to end up with a pristine low mileage car than a high mileage one that you've stuck a lot of $$ into and still isn't worth as much.

[Kevin Stewart]

I think you should have the ppi done ask every question you can think of , shocks, muffler everything, then if you feel the car is worth it buy it, i would like to have a 993 but 35000 for a car that will sit 6-7 months a year because of snow, i will not do, but 24 maybe, have a look at all the sc and 3.2 rebodies to 993 they are going for 22-25 and you know they were high miles or wrecks or something, so there is a good chance that deal is not that bad, we hear of sc's with 250000 miles all the time and the motor was rebuilt, Im afraid if I was in your shoes I would do it if everything checked out especialy if you plan to keep the car a long time, A lot of the guys on this board feel every car should be prestine low mile cars, but there are some prestine high mile cars also, but go through every knob everything and make sure it works if it doesnt have them fix it or take off the final price, If you do a search a few months ago we all looked for the cheapest 993 we could fine and 39 was about it for a prestine car, and few others coming in under 37, so woo hoo, man i envy you if you get it, i do have a sc converted to a cab and c2 wide body in speed yellow and it wows me every day, But the 993's are stunning to me, sorry to rattle, but do what you think you should do, Kevin

[dickster]

i wouldn't worry about the high mileage. if its been well maintained it shouldn't bankrupt you. anyway, you'll know you're starting $10k ahead!

unless you're gonna do alot of mileage yourself, then i'd look for a low mileage car.

[Eric Coffey]

So Jerry, did you first hear of the car from the previous thread? If so, email me directly for my address so you can send me the $300 finder's fee. Just kidding of course. However, if you take the plunge, I think it would be great if you would keep us all informed along the way (apparent condition, actual condition, PPI, problems, fixes, final sale price, etc..). Or if you decided to walk away, what the reasons were. If you can come away with a clean, "no-issues" 993 for under $30k, it will give all of us with 993-envy hope. Good luck!



P.S. - I have a pretty good list of "pre-purchase" questions I can email you if you could use it.

[jerrykrug]

still need a Shop for a PPI in jacsonville FL area!!!!!

I have a copy of the reciept from the engine rebuild from Brumos Porsche for around $9,000. Looks like top end rebuild with reconditioned heads etc...

Thanks

[jerrykrug]

I spoke to Mosport automotive in Jacksonville, antone heard of them? Sound like a very knowlegable shop and a nice guy.

How far should I go on the PPI. Do I need compresion or leakdown? or if the car runs out good is that good enough.

[Eric Coffey]

Why don't you just take it back to Brumos? They are in Jacksonville, and are one of the most reputable/respected names in the industry. Not to mention, if they did the rebuild, they probably have past service records on file that might be worth looking at.

[jerrykrug]

I always thought that you should get the PPI from someone other than who did all the work for the non biased opinion,
Mosport knows the guys at Brumos and said he would call to get the over view on how the owner has taken care of this car (1 owner I belive!)

Freefly- yes that is the same car as your post was refering to. Thanks for giving me the thought of a new porsche.

If it all goes throught, I might has my 1980 911sc Talbot Yellow targa for sale.

[Wayne 962]

Why was the engine rebuilt at 90K? This is a major warning sign for me...

-Wayne

[Eric Coffey]

Jerry-

That is definitely a safe assumption. However, from your previous post, it sounded like you were short on time and needed a shop ASAP. Also, a shop/dealer like Brumos is not going to bias their findings/opinion of the car, especially if you have a detailed checklist, and/or list of questions for them. The liability and risk of tarnishing their name/reputation is not worth it. If there is any bias, it would be in your favor, as you are the one footing the bill for the PPI.
Anyhow, it looks like you found a good independent shop, so you should be fine. As far as what to ask, take the other's advice and have them COMPLETELY go through the car (engine, electrical, suspensoin, brakes, interior exterior, body, etc.). I would definitely get a compression check (and leak-down if compression is questionable on any cylinders.) on a car with 142K on the clock, even with the rebuild.

[jerrykrug]

wayne, what would you think was the problem if it had a top end rebuilt at 90K miles / poor service history etc...?

[radcon]

It's true that there are a lot of high mileage SCs and Carreras running around. The big difference between them and the 964s and 993s is content and complexity. An SC is a fairly simple car to work on, and has been around long enough and has enough in common with the older cars so that there are a lot of "reasonably price" used and new aftermarket parts around. You don't see nearly as many suppliers around for 964 and 993 parts. Also, the 993 has a lot more luxury features, electronics, etc. which just present more items to wear out. And alot of these electronics on newer cars can't be bypassed or removed like they can on older cars. I don't think you can just unplug the O2 sensor on a 993 like you can get away with it on an SC. Every little power seat switch, ABS sensor, etc. has seen a lot of wear at 150,000 miles. An although it's true that there weren't alot of great low mileage 993s around a year ago for under $40k, the prices have dropped significantly during the past year. I would hate to guess how pristine of a 993 I could get if I had $35K to work with. In Hawaii, we have a pretty limited selection of used Porsches due to being such a small area, which you would think would produce some pretty quick sales, but there are cars that I've seen advertised in the paper for months now with no sale. And their prices keep dropping.

[nostatic]

I have heard stories of clueless owners running the engines low on oil...that would explain an early rebuild.

Also, 90K might not be "early" for that engine. While there are plenty of stories of SC and 3.2 engines with 200-300K on them, the 993 3.6 just hasn't been around long enough. There is good longevity data on the earlier engines because there are plenty of examples. For a 993, I would think 100K+ is pretty much uncharted territory.

"But Porsche would never build an engine that was shorter-lived than the previous incarnation, right?"

2.7 anyone? I'm not at all saying the 993=mid years, but I wonder what people were thinking in the late 70's-early 80's about high miles 2.7 engines.

[jerrykrug]

I spoke to the shop that did the PPI, and there a few little things like sunroof deflector has a broken clip etc..He said the car runs, drives, brakes, and feels just like all the other 993 and is very strong, no smoke, no drips, shifts perfectly. He said the interior shows some aging, drivers cushion a little flat, shift knob & steering wheel have been re-dyed a few times etc. The body shows some signs of a quality repaint and the owner stated that the front fender & hood were replaced/repainted after a minor fender bender, confirmed from brumos' paint shop. (the shop that did the PPI said it did not look like any pannels had been replaced and that it was a very good job) I did not have a leakdown or compresion test done, and the shop owner stated that this is one of the better drivers he has seen.
He rated the following 1-10, 10 being like new

Exterior 7-8
interior 5-6
mechanical 8+ (engine runs great, a little tarnished from heat cycles)

This will be a summer only covered non garage kept car

Should I buy it ?

[carnut169]

Jerry- I personally would not worry about the miles if it passed a PPI. I would want them to do a compression test if they did not. You do have some room to work on the price, although they have your deposit and you may have already come up w/ a dollar figure. But, for what its worth.... you know what it brought on Ebay. It would sell for LESS than that at a wholesale auction. I work at the 4th largest in the country and can tell you with some degree of confidence that with all the proper announcements that car would bring low 20's. Black book says $23,800 (trade in) and $25,500 (wholesale) in rough condition. You would rate this car rough due to the excessive miles, paintwork, rebuild, etc. Combine that with the ecomony and low 20's is the deal. Mid 20's is fair, and I would not pay over $27,000 for the car.

But.... it is a good looking car, great color and I like the wheels.
Good luck!

[nostatic]

the biggest question is, "what else could you get for the same amount of money?" If the answer is a low mileage 964 (or 3.2) that makes your heart go pitter patter, I think that might be a better choice. If a 993 is the only thing that you want and you don't have $30+K to spend, then your options are limited.

[Early_S_Man]

From the not-so-comprehensive PPI that didn't include compression or leakdown test ...

That sounds like a car that has been used pretty HARD! Sounds pretty risky to me, and unexpected repairs and maintenance over the next five years could easily approach the purchase price!

If that model is exactly what you really want, fine ... but there are other early cars with much less hard use in their history that represent much better value!

[Wayne 962]

Warren has a *very* valid point. If the PPI is shoddy, then you don't know.

Also, it's sometimes (actually often times) less expensive to pay for the better car, than to pick up the basket case that's going to need repairs down the road.

That said, this car doesn't seem like a basket case, and is probably a good deal. Even if the engine requires another rebuild, then you're simply into it for another $10K, which will bring you back into normal 993 price range. But that's a big 'IF'.

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

If this car were local, I'd probably buy it, fix the small things on it, and then flip it for $2-$3K more...

-Wayne