71 'S' price evaluation

[twin plugged targa]

Hi guys,
The other targa I was looking at did not come off and I figured for smilar moneyI could probably get more valuable 911 'S'.
Have come across one in Atlanta, GA for about $22K.
Have some pics but no history yet. Have found some rust on the top right engine bay nr the hinge from the pic but cannot make any other problems from them.
Does anyone have an area where I can post these to then make them viewable? Host page?. Sorry have not done this in a while!.
Also, am I being sensitive- but can the current owner have any recourse if I post pics of his car?.
Would not want to be sued!

Thanks in advance
regards
Ben
Ok Here are the pics- have blotted out the plate for I.D. in case the owner follows this stuff

[twin plugged targa]

hopefully here are the pics....







I know they do not give much mechanical detail and I am awaiting further history but you guys can usually dissect a fake/heap at 100yds!
Thanks
Ben

[9XI]

Sharp car! Really looks very well cared for -- especially the engine area. Black is a desirable color -- is it original?

I am sure the experts will chime in here, but I'll give you a few observations.

The dash looks cracked.
It's lowered -- not my preference on a "stock" style car.
Black horn grills -- why was the chrome replaced? Wreck, rust?
Seat covers -- what's under them? Sport seats? Torn seats?
Where the passenger side rain gutter meets the opening for the rear hood -- is there rust forming?

$22,000 should buy you a nice S. I'd expect sport seats and a good dash for that kind of money, but that's just me.

[twin plugged targa]

That is just the kind of stuff i was hopeing for as I would not know if chrome was missing or not!.
I noticed the lowered, which could also mean shock gone (mine were) have not got history yet but I agree about the seat covers- looks susp.
I did not notice th craked dash- will inspect my bitmap more closely!
Thanks for the time
regards ben

[304065]

I looked at the photos and I agree with my Eurovan-driving colleague above. The only thing out of the ordinary that I can see from the pictures is the MFI thermostat hose: the original is actually two paper and aluminum hoses, one inside the other- costs about $20 from Pelican. I don't know what that "S" shaped hose going from the intake snout is, but then again, I've never actually SEEN an "S" that still has that snout. Most have been sawed off about three inches from the air filter, which was a period factory performance mod I'm told. It looks like there is some paint missing from the starboard side of the rear crossmember. If the car had A/C that would explain it- somebody taking the compressor in and out. Maybe it got scratched when the MFI system was removed?

These are INCREDIBLY minor nits by the way, if it were me I would not hesitate to go the next step and do a full PPI.

[Raymond]

from the 'for what it's worth' department: my '70T had the same stock air cleaner box with the snorkel. mine had the same paper/foil hose running from the fitting and routed out the tin. that is a factory item, but i don't recall my hose being that unnecessarily long. i can't speak for MFI cars, but the air cleaner is identical. by the way, the snorkel is held onto the housing with these plastic wing nuts and the whole snorkel is easily removed. no cutting to get what you describe.

that said, great car!

[911pcars]

As long as we're nit-pickin', the rear bumper guard bolt plugs are missing

The front bumper may not be period correct. What year "S" is this? The bumper style is from '72?? and could be either metal or FG.

The aluminum engine grill looks pretty straight; a fragile part that indicates some history of care.

If it once had A/C (wear on engine apron), they also changed out the knee pads under the dash.

I prefer it lowered vs. stock height but this can be reset. This is minor as are the horn grills. New dashes are plentiful (but $$). Otherwise, it looks clean from the pics. A first-person inspection is mandatory however.

Hope this helps,
Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[speeder]

Hard to tell from those pictures, but looks like a decent un-molested car. Looks like it has been driven/enjoyed, not a real creampuff. What IS under seat covers? For $22Gs, I would expect an excellent car, but not "beyond excellent" like PWDs or the black one at Cambria. My .02.

[HarryD]

Hi,

for what it is worth.. The May 2002 issue of excellence shows a 71 S to be worth:

Poor - 9931
Good - 11291
Excellent - 15115

For 22k, this had better be more perfect than when it left the factory!!

[Two Oh]

ragtop, The rust that you see above the hinge area is caused by a leaking rear window weatherstrip. If you see rust here you will probably see rust in the wheel well where the fender is attached to the cowl.

Get a flashlight and look in wheel well, up by the corner of the rear window for some rust. Because the water has seeped in at the corner of the rear window you could have rust underneathe the rubber coating.

Also check the carpet for rotting in the upper left hand area of the back seat.

[Bobboloo]

As Two Oh said that rust comes from the rear window. You should also look in the engine compartment at the underside of the rear deck. Chances are it's rusted through to the engine compartment as well.

You should check the corners of both the front and rear windshields. This is where the water collects at when the seals dry out or gap.

If you can. Also stick your finger underneath the edge af the dash where it meets the doors and check for rust. This is a common place for rust from the water that gets "blown" into the interior compartment from the windshield corner while driving.

Another common area is the suspension pan.

Not to scare you off but when I see a spot like that area next to the engine lid it usually sends up a flag that there may be other rust lurking out of view.

Bobby

[speeder]

Harry, You have opened a can of worms, (which has fortunately been already beaten to death, raised from the grave and beaten some more), with Bruce Anderson's early "S" valuations. If there truly was an "excellent" early "S" for $15Gs anywhere, the stampede towards it would make getting out of Saigon look like minor rush-hour traffic. Concours quality early "S" cars routinely fetch $40-50-60,000 at auctions. This has been occuring for AT LEAST 10yrs.

In B.A.'s defense, he allows that "beyond excellent" examples can and do sell for "several times" his dollar figures.

[HawgRyder]

The extra hose from the underside end of the air breather goes to a fitting on the (frame?)...just below the oil filter.
It took me more than a week to figure out what mine should look like...but aparently I got it wrong...my hose just drops down from the snout and passes to the right side and then up into the "frame" fitting.
I think it has something to do with heated air to the snout.
Bob

[HarryD]

Yes Speeder, I know about Bruce's valuations and the issues relating to early cars. I was trying to point out was that to go beyond Bruce's numbers, the car needs to be truly beyond excellent (no rust, no stupid mods, etc).

[curtisaa]

Originally posted by speeder
[
In B.A.'s defense, he allows that "beyond excellent" examples can and do sell for "several times" his dollar figures. [/B]

I'm surprised you would come to BA's defense..not many would, when the word valuation pops up....

[jeff1hughes]

For what its worth, I bought a '71 S Targa, two owner car, Pensyvania then Tennessee for $7700. Only problem on car is left front fender (some rust perforation). Perfect, original interior, perfect original top, perfect and complete tool kit. It had been converted to the Webber 40 IDAs, proffesionally, by PMI out of California. If you're looking for a deal, there are better ones ou there!

-Jeff

[silverc4s]

Sure, just go to Pomona, they're almost free....

[MBAtarga]

Sure, Jeff, compare the price of this coupe to your purchase price - of a '71 S ...

Targa

[Wayne 962]

The coupes and targas seem to be fetching similar values lately, although a coupe will probably always be worth more in my mind since more people want them.

Judging from the photos, this car would rank in the excellent caegory, as defined by my colleague Bruce Anderson. At $22K, I would say it is overpriced, compared to similar cars I have seen out here. For $22K, I would expect that all of the little details that everyone has picked over here would be taken care of...

-Wayne

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks for all of you who have chimed in, I appreciate all of the expert advice.
Conciderring the rust above the engine compartment hinge which, with viewing on the original Bitmap shows a hole and poss extensive rust leads me to let this one pass.
If it was closer and more accessible, but as it is obviously not a 'Gem' of a bargain, I will bide my time!.
As I have the essentail means of transport currently, I know that waiting till the 'right' car will make all of the difference.
I will definately pass by the next potential candidate for your close scrutiny as you guys are a great help.
Thanks again!
Regards Ben