Can a backdated 911 be had for under $30,000?
 

Newbie here looking to get my first Porsche. My initial plan was to wait a year or two and get a 997.2 for around 45k that would be used as a daily driver. Now I'm thinking about spending 25-30k on an older 911 that would be a weekend car.

I've read most of the backdate threads on here and it looks like the cost varies wildly depending on how far you want to go. I guess my question is with a 30k budget, what is the best way to get a long hood car?

Option 1: Buy an SC, body kit and have a shop install it. If I buy an SC for around 20k and a FG body kit for around 3k, how much would a shop charge to paint and install it?

Option 2: Look for a car for sale that's already been backdated. This would seem like the ideal option. Do these cars come up for sale often?

Option 3: The cost starts to get so high that I am better off looking for an original long hood in the low 30's like this one? - 1970 Porsche 911T for sale | Hemmings Motor News

I would sell you mine for that :-)

That 70 is nice but you may really enjoy the performace of a 3.0 or 3.2 with the usual light weight treatment and a hot rod suspension. That 70 is too nice to fool around with!

Have you driven a 997? I have not, I bet it is very nice. That said aircooled hot rods are an absolute blast and fun to work on and drive.

I like to tinker so I would always go with a bastard.

Unless you are building yourself; $30,000 is a tight budget for a complete car....

Are you sure that a backdated car is what you want? I only ask as I too prefer the looks/sounds/smells/charm of the earlier cars, but alas, to use it as a daily driver, taking into account my driving conditions (hot, humid, bumpy roads, etc.) a newer car does much better in those specific conditions. As a weekend toy where the roads are great and the weather requires no air conditioner, then yes, go for an earlier car, but otherwise, think hard about giving up the idea of the 997. I know this is not a popular point of view on this board, but trust me, no bigger fan of the earlier cars than me, but I drive a 996 C4S due to driving conditions.

I've driven a 997 turbo

This is the idea. I'd like to spend less money on an older car that would only be driven on the weekends. If that cost gets up close to what I would spend on a 997 it defeats the purpose of going with the older car.

Only you can answer that question..... You are the only one that knows what kind of condition you will be using the car in. Just know that older cars have inefficient air conditioners (no matter what others may try to convince you of), no ABS (wet slippery roads benefit from ABS, specially with fast sports cars), no power steering (try parking and driving at slow speeds) and will need more upkeep (age and mileage are greater on older cars).

For many, this is all part of the fun and I do get it, trust me, I do, but I also enjoy driving, not repairing cars. Yes, a 996 and a 997 will never be a backdated hot rod, but they have their own benefits too. I drive a 996, but spend 3-4 times as much time on this board than those dedicated to newer cars. Why? Because the allure of an older car (make that a 72 ST with a 3.6 motor) drives me nuts, but then "practicality" sets in. Search for Zuluracerx and super9064 and tell me that a newer car would hold a candle next to these two. That said, those two cars would cost A LOT more than $40K....

Some will argue "life is too short to compromise" or "only air cooled 911s are real 911s", but at the end, we all root for the same company (Porsche) and its iconic model (911). Just gotta figure out which one best suits your needs. No wrong decision here.

Regarding costs, well, in my "economics", the cost is determined by: (purchase price + maintenance/repairs) - selling price = cost of ownership. I think you would be surprised at which one would come out to be of a lesser amount. It is CRITICAL that you buy the right car and perform a proper PPI BEFORE purchasing. This will ultimately yield to spending less money.

Does it have to be a longhood specifically? I am just as big of a fan of the longhood as anyone on this board, but my suggestion is to maybe give an SC or 3.2 impact bumper cars a look. I personally have a 3.2 G50 Carrera and love it. I use it for the same purpose you mentioned...weekend car, PCA events, rides in the countryside and couldn't be happier. They have the raw feel of any old school Porsche but tend to be a little more affordable and perhaps even a bit more reliable.

This is something I have been struggling with also. I figure I will buy an impact bumper car just due to getting a better car for the money. and then backdate later. But honestly, I figure I'll fall in love with the car as is and just work on making it faster/lighter.

Chris

There was a chartreuse '73RS backdate article in a back issue of 911 & Porsche World a few years ago that was done really cheap (<$10k from memory) but the fit and finish would not have been to my satisfaction. The basic body panels are not too expensive it is all the small details that eat up the budget. I ended up hot-rodding an SC as it took much less money to make it look and feel like a new car.

Interesting thread.

When I first thought seriously about buying a Porsche, I first considered 5-6 year old 997s. Seemed like great cars. Then considered 996 Turbos. Did some research and discovered 993s. researched those and ended up looking into G50 coupes.

Stopped there. Seemed to be the most 911 and the most fun for the money in a car that has a decent chance of appreciating.

There are days I think about a 997 but it is usually a 90 degree day when I am commuting. My BMW 530 has that covered.

I don't see the point in spending a lot on an SC if you have to repaint a large portion after the bodywork anyway. They're still out there for under $15k if you know what you're looking for and quick on the draw.

When I started looking for my first 911 a couple years ago, it was my assumption that I would buy a solid, mechanically sound SC or 3.2, and then backdate it later. I figured this would be the best of all worlds to get a longhood for semi-daily use.

The car I ended up with is exactly what I had in mind. And then I really started to think it through. Backdating it in a manner so that I'd be happy with the result for the long term would be expensive. I couldn't get it done for a total expenditure of $30k. Not and be happy with it.

After really giving it some thought, I really love driving my 3.2, and from the seat they all look similar, longhood or not. Nothing really wrong with the looks of an impact bumper car, Porsche didn't botch the car totally to add big bumpers like so many other car makers did. I've finally come to grips with the thought that I can clean up and repaint my car as it is, and save a pile of cash to use for something else fun. For my uses, there won't be any significant difference in how it drives, so the current plan is to refresh it as it is.

I really like the IROC look and you don't have to have the turbo flairs for the effect.
If anything ever happens to my '71, I'll get an SC or Carrera and put FG bumpers and a tail on it....
Yea, the long hoods are in style now, but there are other options out there.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1374550926.jpg

Really good SC or average 3.2 - $20,000
Early rear bumpers and center panel uesd - $700
New fr fenders - $3500
New S fr bumper - $1700
New frunk lid - $2700
Early parking/turn lights/lenses used - $700
Misc rubber/brackets - $1000
Repaint/fit panels/replace front slam panel/misc bodywork - $10,000

You may be able to find used panels, but shipping and bodywork will eat some savings.

OR buy a 993 4S or 2S with CEL issue cheap, rebuild the heads/reseal and enjoy a daily-competent classic air-cooled 911 with cold A/C.

For your budget, you are better off waiting to find one that is already backdated. But then you run the risk of buying a botch job. Also, on your budget, you will most likely end up with a botch job.

To me, the little details are what matter on a 911. It sounds like you are pretty new to the air cooled 911 world, if you are anything like me, you will continue to read/research the cars. It is at that point that you will pick up all the tiny details differences, year to year. If I bought a backdated car on a budget, or backdated a car on a budget, most would see a nice long hood. I'd see all the faults and it would drive me crazy until it was spot on. And then that car would no longer be a budget car.

Have you ever considered buying a very nice SC and backdating it to look like a 1974 Carrera? It can be done in a way that is completely reversible, if you would decide to sell, and you can collect the parts needed to do a proper backdate over the next few years and then have the car done right.

'89 Reb Cabriolet.....
 

Mark,

Bought this car last weekend for $15K and the previous owner was right when he described it as one of the cleanest car you'll find today. I was looking very closely for defects or something else to disprove the PO but couldn't find one. But later found a small nick on the paint covered with touch-up paint. Would you say this was a good buy? BTW, the paint is immaculate, convertable top and boot both new, AC works, sports seats, equipped with LO-Jack, and factory alarm included, etc. The car drives and handles the road very well. Now, I could not justify to my wife buying a 993 after getting this cabriolet. But has saved some $20K from my original budget for a retirement car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1374587295.jpg

Tony

This thread seems all over the place. SC's, longhooods, 964's, 993's, 996 TT's and 997's, coupes, Targas and Cabs.

Someone put it well earlier...it depends what you really want. I've owned 996's, 997's, 912's and am now shopping for a 911 G50. I also have a 25 year old Landcrusier, my baby, and have owned older Porsches in the past.

Here's the deal. If you want modern conveniences and great performance, Lexus(almost) like reliability and to drive it daily with no worries, go for the 997. You won't be disappointed. It's water cooled, yes, but it's a Porsche through and through and will give you years of enjoyment. At that point you're not really talking about resale or investment grade vehicle. It's a cool DD.

If you want a 25-30 year old car that you can lighten, hot rod and work on yourself without too much bother, the 911 variants are your cars. Totally different car, way more seat of the pants, less power but(more) fun/danger? Along with this comes a 25 year old car's issues. They break down. They need work. They rust. Yes they're awesome, and that's part of the allure....that's why I'm shopping.

But it's a second or third car type ownership, for the most part. Sure I'll drive it daily sometimes, but I'll have a backup when it breaks, or it's snowing, or it's 100 degrees out.

When it comes to modifying or restoring any car, it always pays to buy it already completed, correctly. You'll never get your money out of it if you do it yourself, unless you're in the business.

Just my two cents....

Nick

I've owned and driven more than my share of older cars, and I originally wanted to backdate my current 84 3.2. But I've changed my mind... and I'm building a backdate "in spirit". The "spirit" is light weight and relative simplicity. In the big picture, my SWB cars and this one are not really that different - all evolutionary changes.

The rear end of the 1974 and up cars is much cleaner than the piecemeal rear bumpers of 1965-1973, especially with some of the rear fiberglass bumpers (like RUF). And I question the overall value of changing the front fenders, bumper, and hood when a decent looking fiberglass front bumper will suffice. I'll drive this car for a while then sell it - likely for under $30K.

Tony - your car was a steal, much like the low mile 996 I got a couple months ago. But deals like ours are exceptions.

This is generally what I plan to do next with my '79 SC. The paint has it flaws and I may have an opportunity to get a good paint job for a discount price.

The plan is to delete the impact bumpers and add FG replacement RS "S" front bumper and RS rear bumper, glass out respray (need a new windshield anyway), and maybe a few other little details such as radio antenna delete. I'm keeping the existing whale tail deck lid (new decklid would blow my bare bones budget).

I'm hoping to get this all done for under $3,500. I should find out in a week if it is workable.

On anothet note... as far as the a/c goes, it is all a matter of perspective. The car is a semi-daily driver and track toy. The a/c works better than the one on the H-D next to it in the garage. Future dieting will likely include an a/c delete.

If I was going for fast and fun but wanted modern amenities...there are low mileage 2.7 Caymans in the mid 20s.

245 bhp in a 2800~ lb car is fast enough for me, and then some.

I think it may be time to add another section to the forum...We need a new one for people who want to chop and backdate. Seems to be getting very popular. And then maybe a new classified section for the less expensive backdated cars.

So the consensus seems to be that $30,000 isn't quite enough to get something done properly.

This 84 3.2 just popped up today and I think it's a great looking car. What do you guys think about the price? I wouldn't be able to test drive it. I'd have to have a local shop do a PPI and have it shipped.

http://www.grautogallery.com/details.php?id=311&page=1&year=&make=&model=&pr_id =&search=

"Properly" is a very gray area.

I just did a back date on a hot rodded '75 and it is almost ready for paint.
The front bumper is mounted using stock hardware, and the hood is held down with hood pins in order to avoid replacing the front latch panel.
The rear bumper is "quick detach" using custom mounts.
I built it to be light and quick.
Given my goals it is done "properly" but to many it is a bastard car.

Rocky - Sent you a private message.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1374598149.jpg

I'd be curious if TRE were to chime in. At one time (a few years ago) the claimed a "basic" backdate (exterior) with color change could be done for $10k. So if you could get a mechanically sound 911 for under $20k (I did this summer), you could do it. But like others have said, the details (i.e. the "slippery slope") can quickly push it over.

I can think of a few on this forum who did their own budget backdates and their cars turned out pretty nice. So it can be done.

..at least that's what I keep telling myself because I want to do the same! :p

Not affliated with this seller, but this car isn't that far from your budget assuming you like the color.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/757545-fs-87-rs-clone.html

Hello to all
Been following this thread for a couple days and there are a LOT of qualifiers on what the end product can look like.
An axiom if I might offer one: The devil is in the details ! The first 95% of any project is pretty much a known factor with regards to pricing and time. It's the last 5% of work that can take a LONG time to get it right.

That being said, one CAN do a 73 RS backdate to a 911SC for roughly $5k in fiberglass parts, seals, turn signals, grills, stripes. Depending on your bodywork skills, you might end up with a budget shop to paint it for another $5k. So there is the 10k figure for a very basic exterior conversion.

BUT... the devil is in the details. How well did you fit the body parts? Do you want to install proper aluminum trim? ($2300 inc chroming the door handles) , Proper full interior that is period correct ? ($10k and up) , Pro body shop doing all the fit, prep, compartments, color change, and high quality paint ? Add $20k to the bottom line. All new seals, weather stripping? Another $1000

there are more details of course. We have been seeing well done cars trading in the 35-80k range.

I just came back from driving my upgraded suspension, no AC, Weissach ('80SC) tonight for the first time in two weeks. This was after living with my, "new to me"2005 997 C2S, as my primary driver for last three hot weeks here in Denver. Gawd my SC is primative. but I love it dearly neverthless! Any yes, I even have '72 Hot rod RGruppe special dead in the garage for a proper perspective. The SC is raw enough for me now, I recommend you get an SC and live with it for awhile before you feel the need to backdate it, --to that even kewler time look.... YMMV

Remember those in the early 1980's and the rage was slant nose conversions? In the short future, I'm guessing more than a few 3.2 owners who backdated, will have regrets.

Got my 77 for 8k
Engine work and stuff........never mind, I don't wanna play this game after all.
But let me tell you, it doesn't have to be. 40k car. For 30 you can have a wonderful long hood backdate.
But only if you do the work. Hope your good with a wrench and paint gun.
Might be better off finding it done. If I had the cash I'd get one finished but even then it wouldn't be perfect to my requirements.
It's complicated.

Have you done a thread on your build by any chance?

Here is one I recently started.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/760016-another-backdate-thread.html

Once I start to take it apart for paint I'll update and post up some pictures of how I mounted the bumpers and other little things
Right now it weighs in at 2140. I it took to Atlanta Motorsports Park last Friday and it is a hoot on track. It needs an external oil cooler bad though. It is a 2.7 with RS pistons, S cams, and webers.
It would get up to almost 240 in about 15-20 minutes of track time on a 90+ degree day.

Sub'd to your thread, thanks for the link. Good luck with the build!

I was going to send that same link, that Salazar sent above.

That car sounds like a pretty cool combo with somewhat longhood looks, but on a later galvanized frame, 3.2 power etc....with an asking price of mid 30's, that looks to me to be about the cheapest way to get into what you are looking for