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-   -   First engine drop questions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/766890-first-engine-drop-questions.html)

BRAIDusa 08-24-2013 07:45 AM

Looks like great progress Jeff. I didn't get mine out yet, Family stuff too and I had to deliver my 12 year Subaru RallyCross car that I sold to make way for the 911. Very sad about that :(

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...97188271_n.jpg

So, with just the oil line and speedo wire to deal with I thoroughly expect to drop this thing today. One question though: what is the best thing to drop it on? floor, dolly, tranny jack, floor jack, Matco tool box (remove tools first)? I'm leaning to the tool box as it is a good working height and has wheels on it. Just wondering if I need wood supports under the engine. Can I sit it all on the headers/heat exchangers? How much does the engine and trans weigh?

KTL 08-24-2013 08:23 AM

Engine & trans weigh ~450 lbs. no worries about the weight being supported by the heat exchangers/exhaust

BRAIDusa 08-24-2013 10:46 AM

Jeff,

sorry to hijack you thread but mine is OUT. :D

Decided to drop it on the tool box we don't use.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...30098371_n.jpg


Come on Jeff. catch up son.

theclaw 08-24-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL (Post 7619212)

Another potential source of that leakage on the trans is likely the shift rod access cover plate. Looks pretty dry to me. Just wet from the acetone/atf treatment. Usually don't need any penetrant for those CV bolts. They're so well lubricated with grease, they have NO problem coming loose. Hence the reason people occasionally have an axle come free that beats up the underside of the car.......

How about safety wire? While they're out, drill them and thread some safety wire around the all. Used to safety wire everything on my motorcycle.

theclaw 08-24-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAIDusa (Post 7619551)
Jeff,

sorry to hijack you thread but mine is OUT. :D

Decided to drop it on the tool box we don't use.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...30098371_n.jpg


Come on Jeff. catch up son.


Nice Work! You beat me to it!! But not by much................

theclaw 08-24-2013 04:32 PM

So I had a decent amount of time today.

Got the axles disconnected. Kevin, You were right. Those bolts were pretty easy to take out. I had some pipe laying around and used it as a breaker on top of a little "L" shaped hex wrench.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377390592.jpg


Then I almost forgot the grounding strap. Darn thing was camouflaged with the undercoating and gunk down there. Also, noticed I forgot the the oil pipe! I didn't see that until I started dropping it (the first time) :eek:



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377390680.jpg




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377390723.jpg

theclaw 08-24-2013 04:41 PM

So, I mentioned above about the "FIRST" drop. I was using a some blocks I had laying around for supporting the car. Placed them on top of a dolly I use to stack the tires on and roll the around the garage.

Well the weight of the engine was too much for the dolly and it started to collapse.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377390901.jpg



So I ran to Harbor Freight and grabbed one of these! They were even having a parking lot sale and I saved $40 bucks.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377391003.jpg


Then it was much easier. Had to go back and forth to check the left axle and the throttle linkage. Also found that the speedo sender wires were a lot easier to pull through after the engine was lowered a bit.


So I started cranking up the lift.

theclaw 08-24-2013 04:46 PM

success!!

BRAIDusa 08-25-2013 05:45 AM

That's awesome man. I need to take that picture too.

How much was that motorcycle lift? Looks like a great solution.

theclaw 08-25-2013 06:11 AM

Paul, it was relatively cheap, $80 at Harbor Freight on sale. Rolls around VERY easily but a little rough going down. Totally worth it.

BRAIDusa 08-25-2013 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclaw (Post 7620399)
Paul, it was relatively cheap, $80 at Harbor Freight on sale. Rolls around VERY easily but a little rough going down. Totally worth it.

As you can see I dropped mine onto a tool box by lifting the car with our hoist. However, the hoist doesn't modulate very well so I am not looking forward to lowering the car back onto the engine with it. Having something under the engine that I can lift it into place with is very appealing.

theclaw 08-25-2013 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclaw (Post 7619933)
Nice Work! You beat me to it!! But not by much................

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAIDusa (Post 7620413)
As you can see I dropped mine onto a tool box by lifting the car with our hoist. However, the hoist doesn't modulate very well so I am not looking forward to lowering the car back onto the engine with it. Having something under the engine that I can lift it into place with is very appealing.

Yeah, moving the lift instead of the engine was I bit problematic. However, this thing is pretty jumpy going down. There may be a way to modify the release pedal to make it smoother.

KTL 08-25-2013 07:56 AM

Nice job dudes! Engines out w/out drama!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclaw (Post 7619926)
How about safety wire? While they're out, drill them and thread some safety wire around the all. Used to safety wire everything on my motorcycle.

Yeah if you've been there done that before the safety wire routine is not a bad idea. Probably a little time consuming in the tight confines of the axle area though. And I don't think you'd have much success doing the outboard side on the trailing arm. It's a tight fit in there.

Another solution is to use some serrated washers and "moon plates" under the bolt head. The later cars with 108mm CV joints and M10 bolts do this and it works good. Serrated washers are cheap by the 100 at McMaster

McMaster-Carr

and the VW plates are only $1.75 each (12 needed)

TORQUE DISTRIBUTION WASHER [87-5081-0] - $1.75 : Vwbugworld, World Of Vintage Volkswagen

When you use the moon plates, some longer CV bolts are needed to make sure you get plenty of thread engagement in the receiving threads. M8 x 50mm is the size you want.

McMaster-Carr

mreid 08-25-2013 08:23 AM

Get the Sears ATV jack. It costs a little more, but it is smooth as butter.

Sears.com

yelcab1 08-25-2013 09:22 AM

I have a ATV jack as well, but have never used it for a 911 engine. Always used the 2 jack method instead.

Pipe with L shaped wrench? You will need better tools than that on the way in, for sure.

Good job nevertheless with the first drop.

theclaw 08-25-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelcab1 (Post 7620644)

Pipe with L shaped wrench? You will need better tools than that on the way in, for sure.

Good job nevertheless with the first drop.


I have a decent set of allen head sockets but the boot made it pretty tight to get it on and off. A simple L shaped allen with a breaker bar worked very well. Once it was cracked loose, I just spun the allen wrench and off they came.

yelcab1 08-25-2013 11:02 AM

The easy way to do that is with the wheels off the car, reach in with a super long extension and sit outside of the car to turn the allen bolt out. You reach the top 2 bolts at a time. Use a screw driver in a disc brake vent to keep the disc from turning.

uwanna 08-25-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreid (Post 7620568)
Get the Sears ATV jack. It costs a little more, but it is smooth as butter.

Sears.com


+10 on the Sears ATV lift! I originally bought the Harbor Freight motorcycle lift, then bought the Sears to compare. Returned the HF, kept the Sears, much higher quality and modulates smoothly up and down. No contest!!

He's a pic from the 3.6 removal from my '80SC. The red dolly was made by a fellow Pcar
friend. When I admired it, he said "take it home, I can weld up another" great guy! It was originally made to use a floor jack slid into the "slot" at the back. You just lower the jack and rest the motor/trans on the dolly. When I found the Sears lift, I slid a HF furniture dolly under the steel dolly as it wasn't tall enough to slide the lift under. It all works smooth as silk.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377459196.jpg

uwanna 08-25-2013 11:42 AM

Here's a pic with the jack out of the dolly. I don't have the luxury of a car lift like you guys, but sometimes you just use what you have! LOL

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377459716.jpg

uwanna 08-25-2013 01:14 PM

Here's some better pics of the red dolly. The guy that made it built it to "industrial" grade!
Steel casters no less.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377465106.jpg



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377465197.jpg

theclaw 08-25-2013 04:31 PM

That's pretty slick. I have some steel casters laying around. Some 2x4s. Hmmmmm.....

theclaw 08-31-2013 10:10 AM

I wasn't happy with the flimsy piece of plywood I had supporting the engine. I also didn't like the cheap harbor freight jack. So I returned the HF jack for the Craftsman and built a proper support for the engine.

First to get the board out from under the engine I had to support the engine. I strapped it to the motor mounts and suspended it from the chassis.




Then I built a dolly and support for the engine. This way, I can roll it around on the dolly and use the jack to support the tranny when I split them.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1377972591.jpg



So now I'm at a spot where I can work on it. I'll be taking the tranny off and posting some questions on a new thread. Got to figure out why my clutch was acting up.

theclaw 08-31-2013 10:18 AM

This final product.


[IMG]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3741/1...755659aa_c.jpg IMG_8097

uwanna 08-31-2013 01:58 PM

Jeff,
Good to see you took that HF POS jack back and got the Sears one. I knew if you compared them you'd get the Sears!
I love the "battleship" of a dolly you built!

I carry a laminated card in my wallet that I refer to whenever I am contemplating
either a tool or a major purchase. It states:

Quality
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers
long after the sweetness of
low price is forgotten"

It's never done me wrong!

Cheers,
Grant

theclaw 10-07-2013 02:20 PM

Happy to report that I've got it all back together, new Sachs clutch, pilot bearing, seals, actuator fork. Also dropped in some Wevo motor mounts.

Connected everything, fired her up and took a spin. Worked like a champ. Not so hard at all!


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/1...823f1c81_c.jpg image by theclaw900

BRAIDusa 10-07-2013 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclaw (Post 7693767)
Happy to report that I've got it all back together, new Sachs clutch, pilot bearing, seals, actuator fork. Also dropped in some Wevo motor mounts.

Connected everything, fired her up and took a spin. Worked like a champ. Not so hard at all!


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/1...823f1c81_c.jpg image by theclaw900

Well done old chap.

theclaw 10-07-2013 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAIDusa (Post 7693806)
Well done old chap.

Why thank you sir! Not so quick as you did though.


Jeff

BRAIDusa 10-08-2013 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclaw (Post 7694290)
Why thank you sir! Not so quick as you did though.


Jeff

Well, you didn't have a race to win LOL


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