Upgrade Oil Cooler: Get Fuel Leak

[911SauCy]

Happy Saturday PP

Went out all excited to install a Carrera Cooler and do the OPRV Update...

Start the car, back it out to warm it up while I sweep the garage floor...dripping at right front...A/C has been removed

I had a new pump installed in March and the (what I'm thinking out line to the engine) is leaking like a mother right at the hose clamp, but only when the car is running. It's dry when the pump isn't on.

Suggestions?

Also, I've got a quarter tank of fuel, if a can somehow get my hands in there will it empty the tank?

[911SauCy]

More pitchurz

I'm sure someone here has replaced these? I clearly have not. Right before they enter the tunnel is some sort of pressed/wrapped looking fitting.

Can just these flexible shorter pieces of line from pump/tank to the beginning of tunnel be replaced or is it the full deal? I'm trying to avoid trailering the car to a race shop and potentially dropping heavy coin right now.

[porwolf]

Looks to me that the fuel hose end was modified from the original crimped-on banjo connector to a connection with a new hose clamp. That hose clamp is the wrong one because it can and probably did cut into the hose end and pierced it. Yo probably have to empty the tank by siphoning it out from the fuel level sender hole, disconnect the banjo connector from the fuel pump and inspect the fuel hose connection there carefully. Maybe you have to cut off the part under the hose clamp and reattach with a different hose clamp where the tightening screw does not cut into the hose. Those are available at a auto supply store. I forgot their names.

[porwolf]

Could it be that when you had the fuel pum replaced they changed the original fuel pump from one with an external check valve with a different size banjo connector to your new pump with internal check valve with a different size banjo connector secured by this leak producing, new, hose clamp?

[manbridge 74]

Plus one on the correct clamp and you might consider safety wire to keep screw from backing out.

[BoxsterGT]

The Banjo connection at the pump should look like this from the factory and when made up on the bench with the proper crimp tools..........



If made up on the car, the hose should have a Oetiker clamp like this........



It appears they may have cut the old hose off at the original 10mm Banjo and clamped the new 12mm Banjo in place.

Check the hose condition carefully, it may be the original and close to 30 yrs old like these...........



This is what I make up for a Pump to Tunnel replacement...........



It uses fittings at the tunnel instead of a permanent crimp so a new tunnel tube is necessary as well.

Len

[BoxsterGT]

Here's what the factory tube looks like with the feed hose & crimp sleeve removed.



A new section of hose (12in +/-) from Pump to Tunnel with Oetiker clamps at each end should make for a proper repair.

Len

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

Here's what the factory tube looks like with the feed hose & crimp sleeve removed.



A new section of hose (12in +/-) from Pump to Tunnel with Oetiker clamps at each end should make for a proper repair.

Len

Len,

I'm thinking I just cut the crimp sleeve off? The hoses do look pretty crappy as they are '78 vintage.

Do you know if there is an OE replacement for this piece with banjo end and the other return. Ideally I'd like to fix them both...while I'm in there you knwo what I'm saying? I'm just not sure how I would reconn these lines to the tunnel line.

Any recommendations on where to buy some fuel hose? NAPA or something of the sort? I was kicking around a while back for some hose for a vac line and was coming up empty handed at many of the "big box" places.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

The Banjo connection at the pump should look like this from the factory and when made up on the bench with the proper crimp tools..........



If made up on the car, the hose should have a Oetiker clamp like this........



It appears they may have cut the old hose off at the original 10mm Banjo and clamped the new 12mm Banjo in place.

Check the hose condition carefully, it may be the original and close to 30 yrs old like these...........



This is what I make up for a Pump to Tunnel replacement...........



It uses fittings at the tunnel instead of a permanent crimp so a new tunnel tube is necessary as well.

Len

What you mentioned is exactly what was done and its leaking at the clamp.

Please excuse the questions but this is uncharted territory for me and my SC.

How hard/$$ is it to redo the tunnel lines? Is it worth it at this point as they're '78 orig?

[BoxsterGT]

Tunnel lines are a real pain to do, but not technically difficult. Lots of notes here on Pelican to guide you. I can email you with notes I have if you like.

Before you jump off the deep end, check the hose that is leaking. Are you sure it is a new hose and not the original cut shorter & slipped over the new Banjo?

I can provide a new 15 in length of Multi-Fuel hose w Banjo as above and you can make the repair yourself. I can also do a M-F hose w M14 Female for the return to the tank. You MUST drain the tank to do any of the above. There are also alternative hose clamps as Porsche has used for many years. They have a continuous band inside to keep the teeth from cutting into the hose. In my opinion, for field use the Oetiker clamps are still the best.

Len

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

Tunnel lines are a real pain to do, but not technically difficult. Lots of notes here on Pelican to guide you. I can email you with notes I have if you like.

Before you jump off the deep end, check the hose that is leaking. Are you sure it is a new hose and not the original cut shorter & slipped over the new Banjo?

I can provide a new 15 in length of Multi-Fuel hose w Banjo as above and you can make the repair yourself. I can also do a M-F hose w M14 Female for the return to the tank. You MUST drain the tank to do any of the above. There are also alternative hose clamps as Porsche has used for many years. They have a continuous band inside to keep the teeth from cutting into the hose. In my opinion, for field use the Oetiker clamps are still the best.

Len

Len,

The leaking hose is the original cut and looks like crap on the clamped end (which is clamped to the banjo). I posted pic earlier in thread but it came out crappy, will send more if needed.

I would much rather not do the tunnel and fix these short pieces as you mentioned.

I can either band clamp a simple piece of hose as you mentioned, or if you are able to make something up with a banjo attached that will connect to the male end of the stock tunnel line I'd entertain that as well.

I'd rather it be a repair than a fix now and have it come back to haunt me in a couple seasons.

S

[BoxsterGT]

911SauCy-

Email me with your contact info and I will make up a replacement hose for you.

It will be crimped at the Banjo as in the photo above.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

[rusnak]

My thoughts:

No need to drain the fuel tank. The check valve on the fuel pump will prevent gas from leaking out if all you're doing is a quick change.

The center tunnel line is a flexible material that will age as well as the rubber/ crimp. I'd replace the whole line from the fuel tank all the way back to the hard lines near the tranny.

While you're replacing the lines, it makes sense to change the check valve. They're relatively cheap, and known to get sticky. The plastic seems to not like the new gas.

Doing a quality crimp is really hard for a home DIYer to do. I'd have someone with a real crimp tool do it. The only line that I'd feel comfortable making at home is the straight line that feeds the fuel pump.

Change the copper washers.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by rusnak

My thoughts:

No need to drain the fuel tank. The check valve on the fuel pump will prevent gas from leaking out if all you're doing is a quick change.

The center tunnel line is a flexible material that will age as well as the rubber/ crimp. I'd replace the whole line from the fuel tank all the way back to the hard lines near the tranny.

While you're replacing the lines, it makes sense to change the check valve. They're relatively cheap, and known to get sticky. The plastic seems to not like the new gas.

Doing a quality crimp is really hard for a home DIYer to do. I'd have someone with a real crimp tool do it. The only line that I'd feel comfortable making at home is the straight line that feeds the fuel pump.

Change the copper washers.

Gotcha

Copper washers...what copper washers? Plastic check valve, wtf is that thing? Thought there was one in the pump? There's another?

How the EFF do you access the soft lines in the tunnel that go to the hard at the trans?

If all the lines had the flared fittings I'd be more comfortable...this crimp nonsense keeps me up at night with fuel.

This do it at home having never ventured into fuel line territory before...to some it sounds like an adventure. To me: someone else should do it so I have a piece of mind and don't screw up my car trying.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

911SauCy-

Email me with your contact info and I will make up a replacement hose for you.

It will be crimped at the Banjo as in the photo above.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

Ok, what about the tunnel line end?

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

Gotcha

Copper washers...what copper washers? Plastic check valve, wtf is that thing? Thought there was one in the pump? There's another?

How the EFF do you access the soft lines in the tunnel that go to the hard at the trans?

If all the lines had the flared fittings I'd be more comfortable...this crimp nonsense keeps me up at night with fuel.

This do it at home having never ventured into fuel line territory before...to some it sounds like an adventure. To me: someone else should do it so I have a piece of mind and don't screw up my car trying.

Sorry, I should explain.

The lines are a single piece from the fuel pump all the way through the tunnel to the hard lines near the transmission.

As has been said already, it's not difficult to change them, just a lot of time consuming work.

The check valve is the think nut looking thing screwed into the outlet side of the fuel pump. A simple 2 minute deal to change it out. Copper washers are also cheap and you can get them at almost any auto parts place.

The reason for the second fuel line at the front of the tunnel is to make changing the rubber portion of the fuel lines easier in the future, rather than messing with the lines through the tunnel. I think of this as a one time deal, because by the time the rubber line needs to be changed again, the center line will be so old you really should just buy the factory line anyway.

To change the fuel lines, I had to:

Disconnect the clutch cable, remove the transmisison mount, remove interior seats, center tunnel carpet, heater fan control, floorboard, clutch cable clevis, shifter, and tank cover plate. You want to have good access to the fuel line to push it through the tunnel.

It's not a difficult job at all, just a time consuming one. You can have it done easily in a weekend. You might have someone re-use the center plastic line, just have a pro do the crimps. Or you can buy the factory one-piece line.

[steely]

Also remove pedal cluster, shifter console, shifter coupler cover and possibly parking brake handle assy (I removed mine but it turned out not to be necessary. Just did this last month.

Buy new tunnel/fuel line bushings if you go this route.

[rusnak]

I was able to get the fuel lines out without removing the pedal cluster, but the center console of course. I also left the shift coupler alone, since on my 3.2 911 the lines are on the left of the tunnel.

[steely]

I removed the cluster and coupler cover in order to push the bushings out from the inside. I just couldn't do it from the outside due to lack of experience and room. I also needed to get to the fuel line metal guide tabs above the cruise micro sw and the cluster removal helped give me space. 911SauCy is groaning right now, but I really found I needed a cluster bushing and master clutch cylinder refresh.

[911SauCy]

I just came to...passed out....now I'm back! Haha