930 911 turbo a /c upgrade
 

Dear members,

I have a Porsche 911 turbo from 1988. I want to make an a / c upgrade for more effectivity. What are the best upgrade systems?

1. upgrade Kit from Kuehl, RennAire or Retroair??

Kind regard´s

Jörg

Someone will come in and say "do a search" but when you do this you will end up very confused and baffled by;

1.) the amount of threads on AC topics
2.) the variety of opinions
3.) the age of the debates
4.) only three vendors offer systems for Porsche

Retroaire, Griffiths, Rennair (that I know of)

So, if you wade through the cr-ap from a few troublemakers like I did for many weeks you can learn a lot and may come to a couple of conclusions. One conclusion for me is the equipment is very expensive ... another is there are folks that swear by a particular system and others that swear at it ... another is that there arent a lot of posts on actual performance on post-install of any of the systems ... Lastly I found that the vendors are helpful and proud of their offerings.

I decided to go with the an alacarte basis .. I already have a brand new compressor, center vent and fan speed control from Griffiths. I purchased their front condensor, blower motor, receiver dryer, the only thing I didn't not get from them is the evaporator, I bought one from Rennaire. My rational was price point vs. performance difference, I didn't see the delta between the two worth $200 (No offense meant by this statement, just my humble opinion)

I am also staying with stock rear condensor, if I am not satisfied with the performane of my system after I replace the stuff listed above then I will probably buy the Retroair wheel well system.

I am not sold on yet is replacing the barrier hoses. Still thinking on this.

Hope this helps.

Steve,

Nice concise synopsis of the running gun battle. Please let us hear the results of your effort.

Thanks,

Scott

I did Kuehl this summer
 

I too searched and read the post This past June / July. I decided to go with the Kuehl deluxe upgrade packaged for $1450 or $1495 plus the center vent kit, a compressor seal and o-ring kit , higher speed front blower fan and new thermostat (control net to the fan switch). This kit included the front condenser, evaporator, dryer and barrier hoses.

My motor was out for a clutch job so I decided it would be easier to do the barrier hoses while it was out. Cost out the door and delivered for $1850. Very happy with the results. 100 degree days are ok Not as cold as a water cooled MBZ, but very acceptable. I'm in California and drove up and back to Yakima, WA when it was 105 on Hwy 5 from Redding to south of Sacrament / Fairfield and was comfortable. 2.1 LBS of R134A and I see 32 degree vent temps on 100+ degree days. But it takes 10 15 minutes of freeway driving to get it that cold. In town it tougher. Charlie's instructions are great and he will answer any questions over the phone if you are having problems. Plan 8 hours plus to run the new hoses.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/757322-84-carrera-c-re-work-mild-climate.html

I bought my parts a la carte as well. So far happy with the results. I did replace with barrier hoses. Despite some people saying they aren't necessary, I have full service history on my car, and the car has never held refrigerant well, even when new. The first re-charge was at 16 months. Was re-charged 4 times in the first 6 years. Had been re-charged 10 months before I bought the car, 4 months later there was only an ounce left. Since there were no detectable leaks anywhere, I blame the hoses, and that's why I replaced them.

Thanks,

is it possible to use for more effectivity Maxi-Frig ( 12a) in place of R134a?

Yes, if you can get it and buy compatible parts. No need to replace hoses if you stay with R12

Hey Scott, I plan to. May be a couple of weeks before I have a free weekend.

I just wrapped up a full system rebuild with a Griffith's kit on my 87 930. I bought my car 4 years ago and the longest hose from the rear decklid condenser to the front condenser had burst. I drove it for 4 years without the AC, but as my wife and I are about to become empty nesters, the opportunities for taking weekend trips with just the two of us are getting freqent enough that I wanted to eliminate one of the key reasons my wife didn't want to take longer trips in the car (wanting to arrive at our destination without needing a shower...)

Per Griff's recommendations, I went with a compressor rebuild kit, barrier hoses, a rear fenderwell condenser, new front serpentine condenser and his evaporator kit. The only thing I re-used was the rear deck lid condenser, and I took that to a local shop to have it professionally flushed and leak checked since the system had been open for so long.

I have to say that I was VERY impressed with the quality of the whole kit, particularly the integration of the exceptionally thorough instructions and the inclusion of all of the little fasteners, electrical connectors, etc., right down to the packaging of all of the little bits in sections that correspond to different steps in the directions. Somebody clearly thought about this a lot. Installation was a pretty big job, but thanks to the instructions it went smoothly. I would say I spent about 12-15 hours on the whole install, but I was being really anal about getting all of the hoses run just right and cleaning up 26 years of dirt as I went. I really appreciated not having to make constant runs to the hardware store to get little bits of this or that.

We did have one very strange issue with the first condenser I received that had a really small and almost intermittent leak under both vacuum and pressure, but Griff stood behind his product and a new one was shipped out quickly. While I was waiting for the new one, I pulled the intercooler and airbox and fabbed up a harness for the fan on the new rear wheel well condenser, that ran around the back of the engine compartment and looks like it was meant to be there. The instructions suggested just running the wire up and over, securing it to the sound pad clips, which would have worked fine, but like I said I was being anal.

With the system charged the system up per the instructions and I'm getting vent temps in the mid-30's while driving and around 40 at idle, and found myself having to turn both the fan and temp settings down on a mid-80's day. While I haven't encountered any really hot weather yet, the system performance is better than I expected based on all of the bashing of the 911's A/C. I don't think outside temps will prevent me from driving the car anymore.:)

Yes, there are other options out there, but I have absolutely no reservations recommending Griffiths.

My desicion are the products from RetroAir. I think the rear conderser and the evaporator are the best choise, but I am not full happy with the front condenser. What ´s about the front condenser from Kuehl and RennAire? Have they more effectivity?

No experiences which condensers have the most effectivity?

I bought the Griffith's (Kuehl) condenser (as part of a complete conversion kit) over the Rennaire offering over the fact that the Rennaire requires modification to the front condenser crash guard. Efficacy differences should be minimal as they are both non-tube-and-fin designs.

Thanks,
Matthew

First you have to decide what your $$ pain threshold is. If your current components are in good shape, the only thing you need is one more condenser. Rear wheelwell units work great, but on this forum the debate will rage-on. I don't care how cold your a/c gets, or what improvements you swear by, the bottom line is that early Porsche a/c will never be like your Toyota. Either they don't get cold enough, or the air noise through the vents is maddening. Buckle-up! Here comes the storm. :cool: