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Tidybuoy's Avatar
 
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Seeking Advice - Removing CIS, Engine in Car

I'm replacing as many gaskets as possible to minimize oil leaks and want to replace the gasket at the "Hell Hole".

The engine is in the car but I have removed the fuel distributor from the air box and it seems that there is enough room to remove the CIS as a complete assembly.

I'm asking for any advice that I can get. Basically, I want to know what needs to be disconnected. I know the obvious; fuel line, electrical, intake runner bolts. I'm not sure what is under the whole thing that is keeping the CIS attached to the engine - if anything.

I have a '74 so I don't have a lot of added equipment to work around.

Thanks............

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Vern
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:19 PM
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Nice thing about the 74 is that you can take off 5 intake runners first with a little manipulation. Might make the job easier. I think guys will tell you to do a partial engine drop. There is one brace from airbox to engine on the right rear and possibly left rear as well.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:33 PM
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mine is a 78 so a little different . i didnt find it to bad at all really . All the things you mentioned and conectors for wur, safety cut off and cold start injector. hoses from the oil tank maybe and other vacuum here and there .. took me 90 minutes to get out and it was my first time.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidybuoy View Post

I'm asking for any advice that I can get. Basically, I want to know what needs to be disconnected. I know the obvious; fuel line, electrical, intake runner bolts. I'm not sure what is under the whole thing that is keeping the CIS attached to the engine - if anything.

I have a '74 so I don't have a lot of added equipment to work around.
The '74 has a bracket between the airbox and cyl #6 intake runner flange. You will find a second bracket to the left of center, that connects the airbox to the throttle linkage console (remove lower nut). Remove the throttle rod at the throttle body, remove all of the intake runner nuts (count them and put them where they CAN'T fall into an intake port!). Remove fuel lines at easy to get to locations. Remove wires to the warm up regulator, the cold start injector, and slowly lift the assembly up, watching for anything that might still be connected.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:07 PM
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Thanks guys.

I'm glad to hear it took "theiceman" 90 minutes. This means that I can probably get my entire project finished in a day: Remove CIS, replace all possible gaskets, clean, and replace.

I've taken just the runners off in the past but this time, I need the whole thing out so I can get top engine access.
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:12 PM
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I'll buy you dinner for two..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidybuoy View Post
Thanks guys.

I'm glad to hear it took "theiceman" 90 minutes. This means that I can probably get my entire project finished in a day: Remove CIS, replace all possible gaskets, clean, and replace.

I've taken just the runners off in the past but this time, I need the whole thing out so I can get top engine access.
Vern,

If you could remove the complete CIS, do the necessary repairs, and make the engine run within a day, I'll give you a treat. But I'll be more generous, I'll allow you to have 16 hours to complete the job. Keep us posted.

Tony
Old 09-16-2013, 03:29 PM
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CIS removal w/engine in car

I just did this for the first time.

Take your time and take lots of photos before you start.
Label everything.

Watch those nuts and washers !
I recommend you block off the intake ports.
( I made masonite block offs using an intake gasket as a template )

Tools: 1/4" and 3/8" swivel sockets with various extensions, retreaval magnet

I started by removing runner #1 then #2, #3, #4, # 5, #6

Reinstallation is a bit more difficult, just make sure you are organized and account for all
the hardware and parts.

Lots of cleaning to do.
That's what took me the longest.

Replace dried and cracked hoses.




Check everything while you're in there and beware……...
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boyt911sc View Post
Vern,

If you could remove the complete CIS, do the necessary repairs, and make the engine run within a day, I'll give you a treat. But I'll be more generous, I'll allow you to have 16 hours to complete the job. Keep us posted.

Tony
Well, maybe I'll allow the whole weekend. My advantage is that I've already replaced all vacuum and fuel lines so I know these are not going to break off in the process. I've also kept my engine spotless so although I know I will find dirt, I'm starting with a relatively clean slate. I've also already removed the fuel distributor (and associated fuel lines) so I've got a little bit of a head start.
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'06 Cayman S - Arctic Silver, "R" Springs & Struts, Spyder 19" Wheels, 82mm Plenum & Throttle Body.
'74 911 Coupe - Silber Metalic, PMO ITB, Electromotive Mgt
'16 BMW R Nine T (the fun one) & '17 BMW G310R
Old 09-16-2013, 04:20 PM
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CIS removal, and the slope...

I also thought it was going to be a two day job with the engine in the car.

Well I am now going on 7 days.

So what happened ?
Well, I discovered a broken aluminum vacuum pipe ( I don't believe you have one )
The aluminum pipe wore a hole in the fiberglass shroud over the oil cooler.

The fittings on my copper vacuum pipe were cracked before the crimp.

"While I "was in there" I decided I should replace the oil cooler seals
( now I am really going backwards)

I broke a fuel injector line at the fragile Banjo connector on the FD.
Rebuilt my Air Box ( Might as well it's in my lap )

So I had to locate an aluminum vacuum pipe ( Thank You Tony )
I had to get a new FI line made up (Thank You Len)

I had to do fiberglass repair ( now I feel like I am working on a boat )

I had to place a number of orders with Pelican Parts ( Wayne loves me )

If it wasn't for the great support of the Pelican Community I would have sold my car by now. ;-) ( not really, I love my car)

Next time I will drop the engine for sure.

It is not a difficult job but there are some unforeseen issues that pop up.
Jack the car so the bumper is waist height.
I did a partial drop which makes it easier but you can do it without it.

Good Luck
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1980 911sc Petrol Blue Metallic Targa, 300,000 + miles
M&K Pre Muffler + M&K 1 in & 1 out Sport Muffler
Previously owned and rebuilt:
60's VW Bugs, Buses & Ghias
Old 09-16-2013, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boyt911sc View Post
Vern,

If you could remove the complete CIS, do the necessary repairs, and make the engine run within a day, I'll give you a treat. But I'll be more generous, I'll allow you to have 16 hours to complete the job. Keep us posted.

Tony
Yeah after getting it out I spent a couple of weeks rebuilding the cis, putting it back, and setting it up.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:14 PM
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Just did mine on my '82 SC. Took me a day and a bit, mostly because I hadn't done it before.

Tip for new players: undo the rear mounts and lower the engine down a few inches. It would have made the world of difference for me.

on the later CIS the alloy pipe runs through everything and prevents the CIS and manifold from coming out as a unit. Also, if you can undo that front right hand manifold nut under the airbox without sliding the airbox out first I'd love to know how.

If I have to do it again I would be able to do it in about 4 hours but frankly I'd rather drop the motor right out than do that again.
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:55 PM
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Cis removal & installation tools

I found the key tools for removing the runner nuts were 12mm 1/4" & 3/8" swivel sockets
and articulating ratcheting box end wrenches. (12mm for 1980sc)

You can remove #6 runner by removing #'s 4 & 5 first. Then use racketing articulating box end
OR
you can go over the top with swivel sockets on long extensions with universals.

The sequence of events is key.

John from Greenlawn NY was kind enough to drop by and advise me on installation.
He has done the installation by hooking up all the fuel and vacuum lines first.
Start with just number six runner installed and the bottom engine case breather hose connected.
Then lower the box in swinging it in left to right.

Install runner #3 then #5 then #2 then #4 and #1 last.


I have also found that if you use hose clamps with hex heads and flat screwdriver slot
you can work blind. It is easier to get a ratchet or nut driver on connections in the rear than it is trying to keep a screw driver in a slot.

Take your time and think it through.
It is a lot easier on pre 80 cars.

NOTE:
All this information has been gleamed from the collective knowledge of the brilliant men on this board.
I myself have not had an original thought since 1969 !


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1980 911sc Petrol Blue Metallic Targa, 300,000 + miles
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Previously owned and rebuilt:
60's VW Bugs, Buses & Ghias
Old 09-16-2013, 09:10 PM
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I did this a while back and made a post of the necessary steps, Removing CIS with engine in the car - the writeup

/b
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicfranc View Post

Take your time and think it through.
It is a lot easier on pre 80 cars.
Actually, that should read "pre-'76 cars." 1975 was the last production year that used a hand throttle, '76 was the first year to get the auto cold start system (all the parts hiding near cyl #6 intake runner).
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann View Post
1975 was the last production year that used a hand throttle
...except for the '76 and '77 Carrera 3.0, which still had one. Probably the '76 Carrera 2.7 as well, though I haven't seen one of those in person (not that they ran CIS anyway....)

JR
Old 09-17-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theiceman View Post
mine is a 78 so a little different . i didnt find it to bad at all really . All the things you mentioned and conectors for wur, safety cut off and cold start injector. hoses from the oil tank maybe and other vacuum here and there .. took me 90 minutes to get out and it was my first time.
I note you have a ‘78, as do I.

Any advice on how to get to intake runner number 2.
Mine seems to have “this” in the way.
Can’t find what it is in my Bentley manual
Old 08-18-2018, 12:50 PM
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Seems it is in Bentley and can be removed via two 5 mm Allen bolts.
Safe to assume it must come out to get at the intake runner bolts?
Old 08-18-2018, 01:40 PM
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WUR= warm up regulator.

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Old 08-18-2018, 01:41 PM
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