Broken A/C vs. no A/C -car value question
 

Okay, I know I have been posting a lot lately, but I wonder if there is a consensus on this.

Does removing a non-working AC system affect the cars value? Does anybody even care?

Just about every used 911 sc and 3.2 carrera has AC. Also, most of them are either broke, or about to be broke. Most have not been converted. At the time of sale, everyone says "car has AC- just needs recharge" or something to that effect. But that's BS, because if you did recharge it, it would leak out in short order. Even if the AC did work, it never really worked well to begin with. So anyway...

My new 78 sc has the typical "AC just needs the typical recharge". New compressor, still R12- meaning- basically, the entire system needs to be redone to convert to new freon. I asked the PO how long the system would hold a charge..He was honest and said "about 3 months"- which is actually better than what I expected. No way I am going to scrounge some r12 to have it fizzle out in 3 months.

Since it doesn't work, does removing it adversely affect the car's value? I'm talking about complete removal, lines, condensors, evaporators, etc. Let's get real. It doesn't work. It is a driver. Does anybody care? I feel like I am just hauling around a broken AC system, but this car is a nice driver and is pretty much original. If the car was a beater the system would already be gone, but this car is actually pretty nice.

Is there a difference between saying "the car has AC, it's broken, won't hold a charge, and all the lines need to be redone" and saying "the car has AC, it's broken, and all there parts are sitting right here in this box"?

P.S. I am also a weight weenie. does anybody know how much a complete AC system weighs?

Thoughts?

If you're expending any brain cells at all on future resale value, I say leave the system in - working or not.

Why not fix the AC?

I took mine out and if I recall, the bin of take offs weighed 90 pounds.
I'm also backdating the heat.
I'm not planning on selling the car and wanted better access to the engine.

Leave intact.
I looked at a 3.2 coupe this summer that had the AC entire removed, but "parts are in a box".
It was a big turn off to me, I would rather have the parts installed, even non working.
Bob

It's real heavy (see here http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/423361-438-lbs-gone-5-days-my-build-story.html). I took mine out because I don't live in the south and I preferred the weight savings over the PITA of keeping it he running. It comes down to what you want to use the car for. I don't care about value - it's my car now - but I would agree with others that taking it out will reduce the value for the average buyer. For me (if I were the buyer) I would thank you for doing it for me :)

I agree with the leave it in place thoughts. If you are worried about resale, that is. If I'm buying a car, I'd rather have non-working but intact over a big box of parts. If I want to fix it, I want to see how it is supposed to look.

Best for resale: working AC. Bonus: Upgraded AC that actually works.

Next best: Non-working, but all parts are there and functional.

Down the list: Had AC, but parts in box. Next - had AC, but no parts exist any more.

Finally, furthest down: No AC.

Some folks find the lack of AC attractive. But those folks are a very small minority of the Porsche-buying public. If the car has no sunroof and no AC, then your car has a bigger resale pool than just "no AC".

The best way to keep or increase resale is to upgrade the AC to at least have barrier hoses.

Yeah we noticed that and we were going to say something, but your posts are always fun to read.

This question has been answered quite a few times in the 911 forum.
But, the answer is "YES"... removing the AC reduces your range of market at re-sale time; meaning there are buyers whom want air conditioning, hence if you remove it you removed that audience.

. The more you remove the more it reduces the value of the car.
The more pieces the future car owner needs to put back on or locate means more time and money for them, hence your resale value drops.

It depends if you have a 1 or 2 condenser system, a York or Denso or other.
Without getting our weigh scales out ... you can figure in total anywhere from 65-75 pounds average. If you are considering that weight savings is going to move you to the front of the race pack or improve your lap times then you better be the best of the best.


If you don't need AC or its not in your budget at the moment to fix it right, then
here is a plan for you to be happy now and recoup your assets later.

Remove the compressor, deck lid condenser, drier, front condenser and its crash guard. That will account for not quite half of the weight. Leave the hoses in place and capped, if they are stock they are useless (they leak), however removing them requires quite a few hours of work and becomes a puzzle for the future buyer. Leave the evap box and evap in place, again its a matter of hours vs. weight savings; there are plenty of posts about what to do with the evap blower in this situation. Of the items you remove, keep them and their hardware well packed away. When it comes time to sell the car put them back in before you sell it... you are back where you are now with the typical stock system that does not work; at least you can be 100% up front with the new buyer and tell them "its all here, a typical stock system that does not work".

No one wants to buy a car and be handed a box of parts ..... wondering if everything is there, if they can put it back in, and if it will work afterwords.

Thanks for everyone's input.
Quite frankly, I was thinking everyone was gonna say "Just ditch it, because they aren't worth a da#$ anyway."
So much for that theory, and I was kind of bummed, because on the 78's 180 hp, I thought my best strategy would be to reduce more weight.
Oh well. Now I know I'll just need more power. 3.6 here I come. Resale be damned.:)

Kuehl, It's funny but I was just on your website reading about upgrading. Probably won't do it this year (gotta replace gas lines and redo suspension bushings first), but if I fix the system, I'm gonna go all the way. I'm not gonna peacemeal it. Currently, I've already taken off the rear condensor and compressor, and capped the remaining lines, but was gonna keep everything else so reassembly wouldnt suck. I will try to coordinate line replacement with some undercoating touch up I will need to do in future.

Thanks again.
Ron

Then, there's my car...
'78 row that had a/c installed here in the US when imported by the guy who bought it new in Germany.

The car had no options besides the drivers mirror as built.
A/C removal puts the car back to stock configuration and weight.

The parts are in boxes if I decide I want a/c, odds are I won't ever need it here in my state.
Wind up windows, manual door locks and no cruise control or A/C!!!
What a barbaric car... :)
But, my power mirror works...

Market for resale? Who freaking cares? It has 86,000 miles on it and I plan to drive it until I can't any more, then my son can carry on if gasoline is still around. :)

Power? The SSI's, Dansk muffler and the Bitz kit EFI have made a very noticeable difference. They also helped me to shed a little weight and cost a lot less than a bigger engine too!

If you are already thinking resale then leave it bone stock....stock always sells best.
If you are keeping the car (who knows how long) then do what you want as long as you can put it back to stock.
If you really want the car do what the hell you want to.

haha!!! LIKEY LIKEY!!!

As a confessed weight weenie, there are days I look at my 78 power mirrors and mentally start ripping them off! At least compared to my 951 power windows- they were sooooo heavy compared to the mirrors off my 66' 912. But then I call my weight weenie anonymous sponsor, who calmy reminds me not to start butchering this fine car.

You also mention bitz: :) my motor plans are as follows- Drive the hell out of 3.0 CIS until it fails (mine oddly works great for some strange reason- knock on wood). Once CIS shot and cannot be solved in one simple pelican parts post- BITZ. Once engine needs rebuild -3.6

On further discussion with my ww sponsor, it is clearly obvious from these postings I need a second 911. My current 78 needs to stay free from my hackjob ways. It will eventually receive AC/ etc. My dad has a 66' 912 tub which is rusting in a field. Little does he know he will be pried free of it. motor mounts will be changed. Fiberglass will be added. SWB "R" project. That will be my weight weenie hackjob project.
R