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Cold Start Problem - Fires up then dies....
Cold start problem on 83 sc (european car)
in the cold morning (only last few days, earlier in the winter it ran fine, even on much colder weather): 1. Start the car, fires up and dies. 2. start again, fires up and dies 3. repeat 4 more times.. 4. Start again, runs at very low RPMs for about 10 min. (about 250 RPM) - idles rough. 5. When engine warms up, car runs well for the rest of the day...no problems.. even between intervals of 5+ hours.... What is going on here? CIS issue? Does it sound like one of my valves has frozen? thanks for the reply.
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www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=501 The data in the CD-type disc decodes easily into ASCII computer text as follows, using 8 bit binary: * "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. (Damaged Word). There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING (BELL SOUND)” * The damaged word would appear to be intended as “BELIEVE”. Last edited by tight as a bull's ass; 02-11-2003 at 02:54 PM.. |
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02-10-2003, 01:52 PM
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check thermo time switch
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Robert Stoll 83 911 SC 83 944 |
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02-10-2003, 02:04 PM
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Sounds like the fuel mixture is set a little too lean. The fact that you get it to fire up indicates that the extra fuel injector and thermo time switch is working.
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Graham Archer 83 911SC Cab |
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02-10-2003, 02:08 PM
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anyone else?
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www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=501 The data in the CD-type disc decodes easily into ASCII computer text as follows, using 8 bit binary: * "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. (Damaged Word). There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING (BELL SOUND)” * The damaged word would appear to be intended as “BELIEVE”. |
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02-10-2003, 06:26 PM
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Location: gatlinburg tn
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mb added a cold start fuel pressure reg. to drop the pressure in the fuel distributor durring warm up. thus a richer mix in addition to the 7th injector. do p cars have them?
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72 911t grey/black mine 74 914 2.0 black/ tan hers 02 g500 black/black womanproof 01 f250 psd dirty the mule 60 correct craft starflite cool 69 correct craft torino hauls butt 72 correct craft ski nautique fun 66 vw 1500s will finish someday |
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02-10-2003, 06:36 PM
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Location: VA
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im currently experiencing the same problem in my 89' carrera 4. i'll post you an update once i take it to my shop and have the mechanic check it out. keep me posted.
>>>Tim >>964 c4' |
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02-10-2003, 07:14 PM
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Montana 911
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Location: Montana
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I always thought this was caused by a bad WUR or cold start valve...any thoughts? I have the same problem with mine at the moment.
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02-10-2003, 07:26 PM
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The thermo-time switch doesn't do anything once the starter is disengaged and a leaking cold start valve would cause a rough idle to get worse as the engine warms up. I suspect you are either getting too high of a cold control pressure out of your warm up regulator or WUR (causes the engine to run lean) or your auxilliary air regulator is not working properly (shutter remains closed even when cold). You'll need a pressure gage test rig and fittings to properly test the WUR. You can pull off the AAR and look to see if it's shutter is open when it's cold. Cheers, Jim
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02-10-2003, 07:32 PM
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You said that earlier in winter when the weather was even colder, the car had no problems starting. Is it possible that the mixture may habe been alright for those conditions with the denser air, but now it is running too rich?
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02-10-2003, 08:44 PM
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"The cold start valve supplies extra fuel to the engine when starting the engine cold. A non-functional valve results in poor idling and tough starting when cold."
From the Pelican Parts catalog.....sounds like my problem. Has anyone else had the same problem, replaced their Cold Start Valve and the problem went away? Thanks.... As usual, I'm trying to save a trip to the mechanic....they charge 60 bucks just to diagnose problem! Pelican Parts = Free
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www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=501 The data in the CD-type disc decodes easily into ASCII computer text as follows, using 8 bit binary: * "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. (Damaged Word). There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING (BELL SOUND)” * The damaged word would appear to be intended as “BELIEVE”. |
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02-11-2003, 02:53 PM
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The cold start valve should only open when the starter motor is engaged. This might explain the non-starting, but not the rough idling that lasts 10min.
Last edited by an6drew; 02-11-2003 at 04:26 PM.. |
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02-11-2003, 03:47 PM
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"fires up and dies" If the cold start valve isn't operating then you likely wouldn't even start ("fires up") the first time. Unless I misunderstand what you mean I doubt it's the cold start valve. Any chance you have a new crack in the air box? Any big backfires lately? Jim
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02-11-2003, 04:01 PM
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Location: Lacey, WA. USA
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Right. If it fires right away, then I know your CSV is working, at least briefly. If it then dies, I suspect your mixture is off. It looks to me like the CSV needs to be spraying for your engine to run. Once it quits, then your engine dies because your regular injectors are either not spraying enough fuel, or are spraying too much. So, a mixture problem. The mixture problem could be caused by a fuel pressure issue.
Edit: If starting is excellent once it is warmed up, then I am suspicious of fuel pressures and the WUR.
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02-11-2003, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Problem only happens in the cold morning, though....the rest of the day it starts fine and runs well.... This afternoon, for example, I let it sit from 1 PM to 6 PM while I was at work. Got out of work, turned the key, and everything was normal again... something about getting her started in the morning and only the morning.....arrggghhhh!!!! 
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www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=501 The data in the CD-type disc decodes easily into ASCII computer text as follows, using 8 bit binary: * "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. (Damaged Word). There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING (BELL SOUND)” * The damaged word would appear to be intended as “BELIEVE”. |
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02-11-2003, 05:44 PM
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Check the WUR or AAR. You can start by looking to see that all the hoses and lines are intact (not cracked or split) and hooked up. Might be time to invest in a CIS pressure test rig and a copy of Watson's book; cost together will be between $80 and $150 (depending on the quallity of the test rig) plus shipping and you'll learn about your car's fuel system. Cheers, Jim
Last edited by Jim Sims; 02-11-2003 at 05:57 PM.. |
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02-11-2003, 05:52 PM
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ok, so where is this AAR, and what does it look like?
I'm going to see if it's open in the morning during cold starting....thanks so much for your replies. Greatly appreciated
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www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=501 The data in the CD-type disc decodes easily into ASCII computer text as follows, using 8 bit binary: * "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. (Damaged Word). There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING (BELL SOUND)” * The damaged word would appear to be intended as “BELIEVE”. |
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02-12-2003, 08:09 AM
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See this thread for AAR location:
AAV and Decel Valve It's on the passenger side of the engine up above cylinder 5. If you take the hose off the right side you may be able to look in with a flashlight and inspection mirror (dental mirror). The shutter may only be part way open, this is normal. If you take the AAR off and put it in a deep freeze it will open more, perhaps all the way. If you apply power (12 volts) to the terminal you will energize a heater and this will cause the shutter to close as the AAR heats up. I took mine out and tested it on the bench and in the freezer. Cheers, Jim Last edited by Jim Sims; 02-12-2003 at 08:48 AM.. |
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02-12-2003, 08:41 AM
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1. Forget the thermotime switch and cold start valve. Your car starts and these ONLY WORK WHEN THE STARTER IS CRANKING!
2. Easy check; is your AAR open when the engine is cold? This gives you a higher cold idle. 3. Is your cold WUR pressure correct. You need the CIS pressure tester to check this. |
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02-12-2003, 08:43 AM
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trying to get the AAR out....Got the allen wrench screw in the front off, got the connector off and the two air lines....
Is there something else holding it into place? Still wont come out. Thanks.
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www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=501 The data in the CD-type disc decodes easily into ASCII computer text as follows, using 8 bit binary: * "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. (Damaged Word). There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING (BELL SOUND)” * The damaged word would appear to be intended as “BELIEVE”. Last edited by tight as a bull's ass; 02-14-2003 at 01:44 PM.. |
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02-14-2003, 01:11 PM
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There are two screws attaching the AAR; the other one's on the backside (towards front of engine). Jim
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02-14-2003, 07:37 PM
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1970, 1983 Porsche 911T, SC 2.2L, 3.0L 
