Hagerty market values?

[BK911]

What do you guys think of the Hagerty site for current market values? Optimistic? Right on?

[wayner]

My feeling is that if you ignore the top line ( not only well presented but pedigree - maintained or restored by a name brand restoration shop so no surprises, plus concourse quality)

Then the lower three lines make sense to me if you agree that most nice cars sit in the middle of the lower 3 lines (blue), with really really nice ones with absolutely no issues sitting at yellow.

That's just my view though and I could be out to lunch, and others will have more experience in this, but I do believe that many people have project cars that they claim are blue when many that I have seen would be below even red.

I'm glad you started this. I've been wondering what others think as well. This should be interesting.

[Jp-oh]

To all you early car owners nice trade!

[Jdub]

For the '78 Targa, @ Condition level 3 - about what we expected?

[Gogar]

It's important to note that the Hagerty "condition" descriptions are for cars that would ALL basicallly fall at the upper end of the scale for most folks.

My SC that's "almost perfect' for most people would hover around the blue according to the Hagerty descriptions.

[BK911]

Originally Posted by Jdub

For the '78 Targa, @ Condition level 3 - about what we expected?

I just looked at that! Actually I think it is a little low. Pretty surprised at how flat the line is.

[Jdub]

Here's my surprise: The coupe version is valued LESS than the Targa? Coupe tops out at 16K for Condition 3. Hmmmmm.

[silverc4s]

I personally find these to be the most credible numbers around. Here's the reason: Hagerty develops this database from the large body of cars that they provide insurance coverage for. Therefore, the numbers represent an agreed value that owner & insurer are placing on a vehicle - or more accurately the average of the value of all vehicles of that type they provide or have provided coverage for.
As the value of a collector insured car increases, the owner will generally increase the agreed value of the coverage. Hagerty will not agree to cover a car that is in their database for an unreasonably high amount. If you deviate too far from the chart, requests for supporting information will be forthcoming from Hagerty.
Sports Car Market values, for example are based on all recorded auction sales of a specific type of collector car. This may be great for 1939 Packards, or even for Enzo era Ferraris, but a lower percentage of Porsches are sold that way vs private sales, etc. so they are not in the database.
YMMV, of course, but that's my view.

[RichardNew]

I own a 1973 T. I like the chart at the top.



Richard Newton
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[ASD]

from what I see on the market for 78 911 these prices are pretty accurate. I am thinkin mine is a condition 3 and I wouldn't take less than 18,000...if I was gonna sell...which I'm not.

[theclaw]

This came up recently on the Pagoda forum (MB 230, 250, 260 and 280SL). The discussion very similar to this one about what's a Condition 1 car. But the bottom line is that this is likely based on appraisals they see. Remember, they are an agreed value insurer. They see a lot of appraisals, not transactions.

[theclaw]

More from the Pagoda forum. member KevinC,

I don't know if I would buy in to the "appraiser's" notion. I tend to follow NADA guides primarily due to the fact they are what the dealer's that I know go by for their own requirements. These little orange books come out every month and recap actual SALES figures for the previous 30 days. It seems to me that their site is updated monthly as well. I have been checking them out each month for the past six or so and while most months pricing in a category go up, sometimes they are off, too.

I took this paragraph below from their site for the sake of discussion...

"We cannot speak on behalf of other guide valuation companies; however, our editors review over one million sales transactions per month to help support our valuation numbers. These transactions come from many sources and depict actual sales both retail and wholesale. Because of how our values are created and the volume of data we review, NADAguides values are used across all segments including consumers, dealers, lenders, government tax authorities and insurance companies. All values are only a guide and prices will always be above or below the guide values for vehicles. The overall condition, mileage, history and local supply and demand contribute to the asking price of each vehicle."

I took a look just now at both NADA's and Hagerty's figures for a 1969 280SL. If you take NADA's "Average Retail" ($53,790) and compare it to Hagerty's average ($54,622) that's too close to be a coincidence IMHO.

On the higher end cars, I would think that placing a value would be more difficult. My dealer buddy tells me that NADA really doesn't speak to #1 cars since for all intents and purposes, these cars aren't driven. It may be just that a small handful of cars are driving these figures but this said, their obviously are Pagodas selling for over $100k.

All in all, these guides are only valuation tools and meant to be guidelines.


One additional thought... it so happens that for our own amusement, my brother and I have been attending some of the big collector car auctions each year since about 2006. Its apparent that "muscle car" prices have certainly cooled but not so much European cars and exotics if you will. Seven years go $750K was a strong price for a Gullwing but now the number is probably at least $1.25M. So with that type of increase, it only stands to reason that the next generation cars (ours) should be increasing as well. I'd be willing to bet that if the world economy grows, nice Pagoda's will be $250k five years from now. Lets face it, nice 190SL's are selling at that level now and they cant get out of their own way!

[theclaw]

Originally Posted by RichardNew

I own a 1973 T. I like the chart at the top.



Richard Newton
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Richard,

That's a great looking car!


Jeff