Upgrade headlights for a 1969

[hemmah]

What are my direct replacement option for my 1969 headlights. I still have the old bulbs.

[silverc4s]

Depends on what you have now ( sealed beams or bulb type ) and how much you want to budget, AND how much you want to maintain originality.

H4's will give you the best light and also cost the most and look least like the original sugar scoops.

[Craig T]

This is some cool stuff. They do a kit for H4 and Sugar scoops.

911 /H4 HID Headlight Kit

[Arne2]

To amplify...

A US-spec '69 would have come with 7" sealed beams in chrome sugar scoop housings.

A note of caution - any headlight upgrade on your car should include a relay upgrade for the headlights, to maximize light output and prevent wiring damage from increased electrical load. I'm not familiar with the process on early cars, so I can't make a recommendation on this part.

An affordable upgrade would be to install 7" H4 drop-in lights (I prefer Hella - Pelican Parts - Product Information: 70476-M44) in place of the sealed beams. Simple to do, no real changes to the car, but much improved lighting, once they are properly aimed.

Another popular upgrade is to install the full euro-spec AL/Bosch H4 light assemblies. (Pelican Parts - Product Information: 0-301-800-101-M422) Similar light output to the drop-in lights, but with the sleeker euro-look. Considerably more expensive.

For comparison, my car came with painted (not chrome) sugar scoops, and I have painted trim on my AL/Bosch H4s. Imagine both in chrome for your car. In the picture below the passenger side has the Hella drop-in H4, the driver's side the AL/Bosch.

[964TargaC2]

You can get New assemblies that replace your sealed beam and use H4 halogen bulbs..probably the cheapest route

Whatever you do you need to install headlight relay kit!!

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by 964TargaC2

You can get New assemblies that replace your sealed beam and use H4 halogen bulbs..probably the cheapest route

Whatever you do you need to install headlight relay kit!!

I just did this on my '72. I think I paid $40 for the entire setup, including the bulbs. I just went with H4 55/60w bulbs, which I think is about the same wattage as the sealed beams, so I didn't bother with a relay. I think you only need the relay if you increase the wattage.

This was a HUGE improvement over my tired sealed beams. It only took about 20 min to install as well.

Roger

[Joe Bob]

h4s is de schizzle......

[Dodge Man]

I run fairly low wattage bulbs on my H4s but installed high & low relays after smoking my turn signal switch assembly. The mechanical high & low contacts are in the turn signal switch on the early cars. It was not an instant failure but just took a few night drives along a dark coast road. How much is your 40+ year old wiring worth? A $40-$60 pair of relays to be safe?

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by Dodge Man

I run fairly low wattage bulbs on my H4s but installed high & low relays after smoking my turn signal switch assembly. The mechanical high & low contacts are in the turn signal switch on the early cars. It was not an instant failure but just took a few night drives along a dark coast road. How much is your 40+ year old wiring worth? A $40-$60 pair of relays to be safe?

Do you recall the wattage that you were using? I believe the stock sealed beams are 65 watt (somebody jump in if this is not the case). Given the H4s are actually a few watts less than this, I don't see how this could be a problem. Am I missing something?

Roger

[964TargaC2]

Stock sealed beams are not 65 watt, there are more like 45 watt high beam! I seem to remember the specs being 36lo 44 hi..I havent run sealed beams on any car I have owned since the late sixties when I discovered Marchal Ampilux , Carellos' etc , ran them with relays and never had a problem with wiring (although the 160 watt bulbs tended to crack the glass!)

Nonetheless the way these cars were wired (See Dodge mans' post above) coupled with the age of the components mandates the use of relays, cheap insurance against expensive component failure/fire and since the relays connect the bulb to the battery even the sealed beams will be brighter

[porwolf]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

h4s is de schizzle......

Agree, and it's original. Here is my original German 1968 911T that I brought over here in 1971:

[darrin]

as a data point, the high beam switch on my turn signal failed while I was running sealed beam headlights in my '86 -- was able to disassemble and get things reset without replacing parts, but now run relays with the cibie h4s I dropped into my sugar scoops.

[hemmah]

Thanks All,

I have the original bulbs on my 1969.

Right now my drivers side bulb is very dim. I did a quick check with a meter showing good voltage - did not check the current flow.

Can the mechanical contacts in my turn signal switch be the source of my dim drivers side bulb?

I switch out a known good bulb with no change.

I did jumper a wire from the fuse box to positive side low and high beams. No change. I also jumper the ground to the bulb ground with no change. The jumper wire was thinner than the original so I'm thinking this experiment was invalid.

I'm going to do more metering to see what is what and try a thicker gauge wire to jumper.

The wiring diagram seems a bit strange on the 1969 at the bulb fuse box. Like the low beams are being feed by a single 12V. It is unusual when I pull fuses. I pull the drivers side low beam fuse and both bulbs are out. Strange.

I'll be searching for 2 relay kits and 2 H4 55-65W assemblies.


Thanks,
Steve

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by hemmah

Thanks All,

I have the original bulbs on my 1969.

Right now my drivers side bulb is very dim. I did a quick check with a meter showing good voltage - did not check the current flow.

Can the mechanical contacts in my turn signal switch be the source of my dim drivers side bulb?

I switch out a known good bulb with no change.

I did jumper a wire from the fuse box to positive side low and high beams. No change. I also jumper the ground to the bulb ground with no change. The jumper wire was thinner than the original so I'm thinking this experiment was invalid.

I'm going to do more metering to see what is what and try a thicker gauge wire to jumper.

The wiring diagram seems a bit strange on the 1969 at the bulb fuse box. Like the low beams are being feed by a single 12V. It is unusual when I pull fuses. I pull the drivers side low beam fuse and both bulbs are out. Strange.

I'll be searching for 2 relay kits and 2 H4 55-65W assemblies.


Thanks,
Steve

Steve, you will need only one relay kit as it has the relays for both the high and low beams. Be careful what you order, the "run of the mill" kits are for 74 and later cars. If you search with my name, you will find a wiring diagram showing how to wire the loose parts up for an early car. Not hard to build the relay panel yourself. Also, consider getting high temperature sockets to replace the stock plastic sockets for the lights them selves.

FWIW, I went with the Hella Drop in units. Inexpensive and they work great.

[porwolf]

Originally Posted by hemmah

Thanks All,

I have the original bulbs on my 1969.

Right now my drivers side bulb is very dim. I did a quick check with a meter showing good voltage - did not check the current flow.

Can the mechanical contacts in my turn signal switch be the source of my dim drivers side bulb?

I switch out a known good bulb with no change.

I did jumper a wire from the fuse box to positive side low and high beams. No change. I also jumper the ground to the bulb ground with no change. The jumper wire was thinner than the original so I'm thinking this experiment was invalid.

I'm going to do more metering to see what is what and try a thicker gauge wire to jumper.

The wiring diagram seems a bit strange on the 1969 at the bulb fuse box. Like the low beams are being feed by a single 12V. It is unusual when I pull fuses. I pull the drivers side low beam fuse and both bulbs are out. Strange.

I'll be searching for 2 relay kits and 2 H4 55-65W assemblies.


Thanks,
Steve

You might consider building your own relay setup. That way you can easily insure a minimum of contact areas between the battery and the light bulbs. You make new fused wire connections between the battery and the relay contacts. From the relay contacts you either use the existing wires to the bulb connectors or you make new wire connections. The relay coils are then fed by the control wires coming from the steering wheel switch. The relays are not expensive. I have done it with 4 relays, 2 for the low beams and 2 for the high beams. This way you get excellent power directly from the battery to the light bulbs. It is important that you don't have any voltage drops along the lines under current. Because every minute fraction of a Volt will seriously dim your lights. And also make sure your ground contacts are pristine for the same reasons.

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by 964TargaC2

Stock sealed beams are not 65 watt, there are more like 45 watt high beam! I seem to remember the specs being 36lo 44 hi..I havent run sealed beams on any car I have owned since the late sixties when I discovered Marchal Ampilux , Carellos' etc , ran them with relays and never had a problem with wiring (although the 160 watt bulbs tended to crack the glass!)

Nonetheless the way these cars were wired (See Dodge mans' post above) coupled with the age of the components mandates the use of relays, cheap insurance against expensive component failure/fire and since the relays connect the bulb to the battery even the sealed beams will be brighter

I checked my '72 owners manual. They show the headlights as "50/40 W (6012)". I don't know if this was the same for '69 or not. I certainly agree that a relay adds a measure of protection. But, given the nominal increase in wattage (60/55 in my case), I'm willing to risk it. Even the Pelican website only mentions adding the relay if you upgrade to the 100w bulbs. However, I will commit to posting an update here if I ever have headlight wiring related problems, for the benefit of future users.

Roger

[darrin]

Roger -- fwiw, when my turn signal contacts start to go (I was still using the stock sealed beams at the time), the issue manifest itself by causing my high beams to flash with my directionals -- not the best situation to be in when sitting behind somebody at a stop light. I was lucky and only got a few single finger salutes from the folks in front of me before I got it fixed (looked like I was randomly flashing my brights at them).

Another point on this is that while got lucky and was able to fix mine without replacing the turn signal stalk, adding the relay is cheap insurance against replacing a significantly more expensive turn signal stalk -- not to mention the fact that installing the relay is far easier than the disassembly/reassembly necessary to fix/replace the turn signal stalk.

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by darrin

Roger -- fwiw, when my turn signal contacts start to go (I was still using the stock sealed beams at the time), the issue manifest itself by causing my high beams to flash with my directionals -- not the best situation to be in when sitting behind somebody at a stop light. I was lucky and only got a few single finger salutes from the folks in front of me before I got it fixed (looked like I was randomly flashing my brights at them).

Another point on this is that while got lucky and was able to fix mine without replacing the turn signal stalk, adding the relay is cheap insurance against replacing a significantly more expensive turn signal stalk -- not to mention the fact that installing the relay is far easier than the disassembly/reassembly necessary to fix/replace the turn signal stalk.

Everyone's experiences are a little different. Like I said, putting a relay into the circuit certainly won't hurt. But I don't think it is accurate to state that it is a "mandatory" addition with the 55/60 watt bulbs. Its not. If everything is is good working order, the factory arrangement is sufficient here.

Again, if this arrangement fails at some point in the future, and it can be traced specifically to over taxing the circuits, I will gladly eat a huge dish of "crow"

Roger

[hemmah]

Thanks All,

Roger, I'm going to add relays. I'm already concerned with the circuit as I see non-normal operations such as the dim drivers side high and low beam and turn signal dash lights that flash once correctly then they both flash together afterward.

Has anyone seen this turn signal dash light phenomenon? That is turn signal dash lights that flash once correctly then they both flash together afterward. Maybe this is a new thread.


Thanks,
Steve

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by hemmah

Thanks All,

Roger, I'm going to add relays. I'm already concerned with the circuit as I see non-normal operations such as the dim drivers side high and low beam and turn signal dash lights that flash once correctly then they both flash together afterward.

Has anyone seen this turn signal dash light phenomenon? That is turn signal dash lights that flash once correctly then they both flash together afterward. Maybe this is a new thread.


Thanks,
Steve

Steve,

Yes, my car does the same thing. Just as you described, the correct one will flash brightly at first, then suddenly both will start flashing dimly. However, the actual turn signals outside are unaffected. In my case, the headlights have not been affected by this, either with the sealed beams or the H4s. My car has been doing this for many years (at least 5 or 6). Since the signals actually work fine, I have not bothered to chase it down. I'd be interested to know if and how you fix this.

Roger