What do you know about aftermarket engine management systems?

[Wayne 962]

Somone suggested I cut this section from the new book in order to make some room. I go over some of the basics of the systems, concentrating mostly on the new TEC-3...

Note, that this does not include the 3.2 Motronic Engine Management system, as this is non-programmable.

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Stop looking, and vote already. I hate it when the post says it's been read 500 times, and three people have voted!

-Wayne

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Somone suggested I cut this section from the new book in order to make some room.

I agree with that "someone".
Keep your book focused on rebuilding engines.

[1bar]

I'm not sure I agree with Doug. I'm very curious about upgrading or replacing CIS with a digital engine management system. Where else would I go looking?

[Doug Zielke]

Let me clarify.

It's not that I think no one wants to learn about aftermarket engine management systems. Rather, if Wayne's book is primarilly a book on rebuilding 911 engines, why dilute it?
As good as the BA 911 Performance Handbook is, he does cover the rebuilding section with a minimum of details.

BTW......I recently bought the Bosch Fuel Injection manual that covers CIS as well as Motronic. It's a good start if you want to learn how FI in our cars work.

[hilandscott]

I have read more than a few times references to the likes of "Haltech" on the BBS. Whenever I talk with tuners who are building performance engines, or *simply* bolting a supercharger on, aftermarket EMS always comes up.

Perhaps a brief section about the what and why, just for information sake.

[HawgRyder]

As Doug says...the dilution is a problem.
Stick with the rebuild area...and write another to cover the outside parts ... injection....coil on plug ignition....programable systems..etc.
Stay with the inside work that is basic for every engine (plus all the tricks please)..that will make the book thick as is!
Bob

[Natchamp]

I think it should be included, although not unduely biased towards one make of system. Are you running out of pages or something? If your book is meant to show someone how to rebuild a motor with no performance modifications, then no coverage of EMS systems are needed. However, if you are going to have information about performance modifications then why wouldn't you include EMS? If you hop-up a motor to any great extend and don't consider the proper delivery of fuel and ignition you just wasted your time and potential broke a lot of exspensive parts.

[pjv911]

I have heavy experiance with the electromotive TEC II . I like this system for modified turbo cars . As many of you know I build high strung ricers for a living. These systems require lots of fabrication including wire harnesses and sensor brackets. When all is done you can have a late model car produce 3 times its power output and get even better exhaust emmisions than a perfect running unmodded car. It definetely helps to have a chassis dyno on hand. And yes these are expensive. I charge $300.00 for a preliminary adjust and a dyno tune. Then $100.00 for tuning after that (when another mod has been done).

[silverc4s]

Topic for another book, maybe. I think it's over the top for most of us, even though it is an interesting area..

[JohnC]

I'd like to see both but not at the expense of removing motor rebuilding info. The additional EMS chapter would be helpful to me though. Again not at the expense of motor rebuilding info.

Here's my situation. I'm in the process of tearing down my turbo motor and preparing for a rebuild(your book will be just in time). At some point in the future (next year) I'll need to decide on an EMS.

What I'll need is info that will allow me to make an intelligent decision about which system to use
(features/capabilities VS cost).

Incidently a transaxle rebuild book thats model specific would be nice too

[CamB]

Having just been through this...

I would be interested. It would also be nice for people to know that they shouldn't underestimate how time consuming dyno tuning can be.

From what I have seen, the need for EMS comes at two points:

1) You have a turbo, you don't like CIS and you don't trust mechanical methods of getting more fuel at high boost

I guess also 1a) You have a 3.2 and want to add a turbo

2) You are rebuilding a 3.0 and up with S cams or greater and you don't like carbs and the idea of trying to find an MFI system and a space cam for your engine is scary

I fell into the latter - I have just spent most of Sunday driving my MoTeC controlled 3.2 around windy country roads, painfully restricted to 4-5k revs as I am running it in. The engine, with S cams, idles almost perfectly, pulls from 1500 revs cleanly (the transmission complains though) and has no holes through to 6000 (the highest I have been so far). It is amazingly powerful up to 5500, then it comes on cam... I can't wait for the last 1000rpm.

Not that I have driven the equivalent carbed engine, but there really seems to be no substitute. However, it certainly isn't an exercise for the average DIYer - I have done little myself and various areas have required fairly expert assistance.

Wayne, where else would you see the benefit of EMS - it seems like it would be outside the scope fo the average rebuild??

[michel richard]

My own view is that the engine is not done until it's in the car and running . . . and you can't get it to there without ignition and intake (carbs or injection).

Somehow I would'nt feel whole if I got a book on performance rebuilding that ended : well folks, you've got a nice longblock, now you're on your own !

I'm sure Wayne would put it in better words, but I would certainly like to see some discussion of alternatives to the stock induction.

Respectfully.

Michel Richard

[Wayne 962]

Right now it's going to stay, but I was trying to get a 'feel' for everything here. The EMS pages are only about 3-4 pages long, but they are an insight into what you can do, and why you would think about doing it.

Bruce's book is great, and people keep telling me that I should replicated it - and I'm trying not to. However, there are some things that are not covered well in there at all (too many pictures of 935 motors) that are indeed essential to rebuilding your engine. This book will not be the perfect solution for everyone, but I am trying to make it appeal and be useful to the widest range of people...

-Wayne

[JBunkley]

Dear Wayne,

As an interersted party to your forthcoming book about rebuilding the flat six I'd like to tell you that your thought on the whole process from rebuilding to installing it in the car and hooking it up is exactly what I want.

You know more about the 911 than I will ever know and I will trust what you feel is important.

Sincerely
-JB

P.S. I think it's great that you're writing this book about 911 engine rebuilding. Will it be a book that the novice can use to rebuild his or her engine? When can I get my copy? How much will it cost? Can I reserve a copy?

[JBunkley]

Duh,

Okay, Okay, I read the thread. Stupid questions.

[JBunkley]

Duh,

Okay, Okay, I read the thread. Stupid questions.

[Wayne 962]

It indeed will be geared towards the 'garage mechanic' Normally, I wouldn't recommend rebuilding your own engine if you happen to make a lot of mistakes or errors working on other parts of your car - it requires precise attention to detail.

However, even if you are going to have your engine rebuild by someone else, then you *need* this book. It will arm you with all the questions that you need to ask to find out if your mechanic truly knows anything about rebuilding these precision engines...

!

-Wayne

[Joe911]

I understand the principles of the four-stroke engine - but not the nuances of electronic engine management - so I actually know very little. BUT I would not want the book to compromise any information about rebuilding to cover engine management systems. This choice is not available.