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So to answer the original question, I asked Len about this back in August and he thought it was a good idea. His response was as follows:

"Hi Bill,
That's a good idea, and it could be done. It would be a M14 Female x M14 Female.
It would have to be made up, but since the new Poly line is straight it should pull through from the rear.
Only difficulty might be making it smooth enough to not hang up on anything in the tunnel, perhaps by wrapping it w tape so it is tapered or bullet shaped.
I will look into this.
Thank you.
Len"

I need to get back on Len about making these M14 Female x M14 Female adapter, because I'd buy one in an instant. Or better yet, make one and rent it to those attempting this.
Old 01-16-2014, 03:59 AM
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will hung,
I had the same conversation with him this fall! While we were talking on the phone, it occurred to me that it would be easier to do this:

First, there's not a damn bit of room up here-
So I cut the lines:

This let me pull them down to get a wrench on them:

But here is what I want:

A little dremel action...

Some spare nut and bolt hanging around the garage:

inserted:

Tightened:

grab the grinder and do a little smoothing of the edges:

and wala! (less than 15 minutes work)

... if it works is another question

Last edited by LEAKYSEALS951; 02-01-2014 at 08:42 AM..
Old 01-16-2014, 07:01 AM
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Nice job man.

I replaced mine with aluminum hardlines. I tried that technique but the hard lines are too difficult to pull through - have to twist and turn their way thru. Of course I went with 1/2" diameter lines - so that may had something to do with it. It took me 2 days to do those lines through the freaking tunnel - the fuel return line taking about 3/4 of that time.

Next project I think I will use smaller diameter lines.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:51 AM
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Just got back from my machinist friends. I will have some M14 couplings ready in about one week.

No photos yet, but they will be un-plated until that part of the process can be done.

I will include one w each future order, and for anyone else who needs one & asks, I will send one by Priority Mail at N/C.

I should have done this ages ago.

Thank you gentlemen and especially - Thank You Wayne. This Pelican board is wonderful.

Old 01-16-2014, 08:23 AM
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LEAKYSEALS951 great idea. If you can't wait for Len's solution, I recommend taping the entire assembly up to ensure it stays together and slides through easier. Also, thank you for the reminder/motivation to change my lines. Hate to see such a nice 951 go, but if it saves at least another Porsche, it won't be in vain.

Len, this is great news. I can't wait to get mine.
Old 01-16-2014, 09:36 AM
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Hey Leaky,

I have done this project and it was probably my least favorite. With that said, I have peace of mind now. Use the old lines to pull through the new ones. Tape them together really well so they don't come apart while pulling them.
If you are planning on rebuilding your pedal cluster, and relubing and new bushing on your shifting mechanism, now is the time to do that as well. Doing these together will give you more access to the lines as well and can help while moving the lines through the tunnel.
Now might also be a good time to get a new fuel pump too since you are in there. I also changed out my fuel filter and accumulator as well.
And remember when you disconnect the lines they will still be under some pressure likely so be careful so you don't get a nice shot of fuel in the eyes. Don't ask me how I know this.
Good luck and good wrenching.
Old 01-16-2014, 10:26 AM
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SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got the first line installed. Took it easy/ and it went smoothly. Not easy- but no cursing. Imagine that!

There are several things I learned that I am going to include in a detailed write up later, however, everything went fine. I was so confident in the setup I got cocky and didn't even tape it up- and it still worked!

So here are some teaser pics:
I made sure the connecting nut was a smaller diameter than the bushings

here the connecting nut is hooked to Len's new line which extends out the back of the car: -also a tip that worked well for me- just tighten the nut to the lines hand tight. Dont wrench them closed too tight as you will have to disconnect it in a tight space later....

I used the front swaybar as a fulcrum to pry against with the channel grips. Because I was manipulating the old hose and it is pretty stout, before each pull, I would grab the hose with the channel locks and twist it about a 1/4 turn or so into the tightening direction of the nut threads(or as much as I could muster without destroying the line) on each pull. In addition to keeping the threads tight on the nut, it "spun" the nut assembly in the tunnel, letting it work through most the obstacles by itself. If that didn't work, I'd roll to the back of the car on my creeper and twist the rear line about a 1/2 turn and push it into the tunnel (by hand as not to damage the new line ). Between these two maneuvers, it pretty much gets the line through. No cursing. Actually very comfy resting on the creeper!



Here is the connecting nut coming through the front!!!!!:
..and this is where you want the nut "only hand tight" so you can loosen it in this tight space....There appears to be room up there, but believe me, needle nose pliers wont even fit. Nor fat fingers. This is also where you will be glad you didn't tape anything. Even if the connector bolt did get hung up on something inside the tunnel because you skimped on tape, and it cost you a couple of extra minutes, you will be thanking the porsche gods you don't have to unwrap tape in this tight space.


And here is the rear of Len's new main line extending out the back of the tunnel: it IS covered in yellow tape to keep it from getting crud in it as it dragged across the garage floor as I pulled it into the tunnel-a pain to remove the tape.
Here's what I did (wrong): taped rear of line, pulled line into position (as pictured), cursed myself trying to undo tape in cramped quarters.
Here's what YOU need to do (right): tape it, then when the taped end is about one foot from being seated completely into the tunnel (somewhere inbetween the cv joints and the accelerator linkage-somewhere you can reach it), remove the tape, and then pull line in the rest of the way. These new lines have memory of being "coiled up" and when you install them, the rear not only will drag on the ground, it will flail against all the grime of your engine/suspension/transmission. Unless you have a friend to hold it, the line WILL rub against every piece of sludge on your engine's underside! Basically, you want it taped, but you want the tape off before you pull it to where I did. If you tape it and forget this tip, don't say I didn't warn you!


even more detailed report coming in the next couple of days or so...There were some good lessons I learned to make it even simpler next time.

Last edited by LEAKYSEALS951; 02-01-2014 at 01:26 PM..
Old 01-16-2014, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Wew View Post
Hey Leaky,


Now might also be a good time to get a new fuel pump too since you are in there. I also changed out my fuel filter and accumulator as well.

Good luck and good wrenching.
Thanks! Already got the pump and the filter. I think I'll order the accumulator while Im in there.
Also, if I undo the gas tank filter- the one with the big a$$ allen bolt, is that hard to get resealed? I bet mine's clean, but it would be a good time to check it.
Thanks,
Ron
Old 01-16-2014, 10:40 AM
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Thanks for sharing Leaky! I need to tackle this same job in the near future and have been dreading it. Your experience is, so far, very reassuring. I am looking forward to seeing your detailed post. Maybe Wayne can add it to the Tech articles...
Good luck with the rest and please post more pics for us newbies!
Thom
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:13 AM
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Many thanks on this, Ron, and I'll be looking forward to your details. This is a job I've been dreading, but it looks like it's nowhere nearly as bad as I've feared.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:14 AM
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That is awesome. Makes me feel better about doing this.
Old 01-16-2014, 12:04 PM
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Additionally, I'd love to know details like, did you remove seats, shifter, emergency brake lever, etc.? I can see in the pics, that the steering rack and crossmember are still there in the front, but it looks like you removed the transmission mount. This is awesome. I'm really excited.
Old 01-16-2014, 12:17 PM
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I just pulled my original polyamid lines from my 1976 tunnel. In my case, the only clip inside the tunnel that had to be bent/released to allow me to pull them out was the rubber-lined clip just in front of the shifter, on the driver side of the tunnel. The clip at the rear (that also supports one of the throttle rod bushings) did not need to be touched.

Someone mentioned that their tunnel lines "cross over" in the tunnel. That doesn't sound right to me, but I will check my factory layout tonight...

Doing this with the engine, transmission and steering rack out of the car looks like a dream compared to doing it with them in situ!
Old 01-16-2014, 12:28 PM
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Okay,I've had some time to do bad photoshop.Here are several "frustrating" areas and how I tried to make them easier.




This is how I punched out the rear grommets. I'm sure there are other ways, but this was very quick/ very easy, and you can get a good swing and angle on the hammer

As for the front grommets, it is too tight up there to get a good angle on them with a hammer. I had to pick at them with the screwdriver. They came out though. Perhaps 5 minutes....

There are a lot of pictures of nicely taped strings to feed the fuel lines on this site. The tape helps prevent things getting hung up. If iI was using cable or string, I would do the same thing, however, here I didn't. I wanted too, but I figured due to space constraints, there was no way I'd be able to neatly wrap the bolt. In the string/new fuel line scenario, you can pull both away from the car far enough to wrap/unwrap them neatly in tape. With the connector bolt, you are stuck up close to the car because the old line isn't going to come out very far. At least in my case, it worked "okay" without it. It's no fun unwrapping the tape in these tight spaces either. Once again... potential win win!

Now for things that can hold up the line in the tunnel. Here is an awesome pic from frankc, who has a great link posted earlier in this thread. (go find it and check it out). It shows the first bracket you must go through right in front of the rear tunnel access area, but don't worry, as intimidating as that picture looks, it was not a tight fit and you can get through it.

Once you are through this bracket (at least on a 78), then there is a mysterious "tunnel within a tunnel" from approximately the e brake to the front of the shifter. It is a tight fit, but once you are in it, it is smooth inside. The good news is (at least on my 78) is that this tunnel protects the lines from the emergency brake AND shifter, therefore, there is no need to remove both. I did get hung up here a little because I didn't wrap the connector bolt, but by spinning the lines as mentioned earlier, I got through.

Once you are through that, there is a little surprise:This almost held me up, but by pushing the line from the back and really twisting the line and pulling from the front, it got by.

Once you are around that, in the front is a bracket that DOES need loosening:
This is the only part in the tunnel that requires you to loosen up anything- and-obviously- you loosen this before you pull on the lines: (takes 30 seconds tops)


As far as removing stuff in the car, I removed drivers seat, rear tunnel cover, front a/c console and carpet. This is all I needed to move. Because I was learning, I also removed the shifter and emergency brake because I thought the line was getting held up there, but it wasn't, so removing them was (in my case ) unnecessary. Honestly, I spent a lot of time hanging over the passenger seat to get at the front tunnel access, and didn't mind it one bit. If you were REALLY adventurous, you might try not removing either seat, and just the rear panel and a/c console... but that might be pushing it. That sounds uncomfortable, but with the car on jackstands, the seats and floor are at a nice height to bend over in. Infact... I kind of liked having the comfy passenger seat to lean over. Whatever you prefer!

I'm pretty happy with using the bolt to connect the two lines. It wasn't an easy job, but not nearly as bad as I feared. I did it myself, and knowing what I know now, could have done it a lot faster. Tomorrow Im going to change the return line and see if it goes as smoothly. Hopefully so!

Last edited by LEAKYSEALS951; 02-01-2014 at 09:51 AM..
Old 01-16-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrino View Post
Doing this with the engine, transmission and steering rack out of the car looks like a dream compared to doing it with them in situ!
Got that right!
Old 01-16-2014, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will hung View Post
but it looks like you removed the transmission mount. This is awesome. I'm really excited.
Yeah, I hit it with an impact wrench and zipped it right out. Also, I had to loosen the sway bar to drop it to make room to remove the trans. mount, but I didn't undo it. I just loosened the sway bar mounting bolts about 1/2 way with the impact wrench and that dropped it enough to let the mount fall on out.

Also, speaking of sway bars, having the front sway bar in place really HELPED bigtime as something to pry against. Otherwise AC line would have been in the way of using body as fulcrum.

Oh, yeah, and thanks again for everyone's feedback on this thread. Man , I was dreading this job!
R
Old 01-16-2014, 04:42 PM
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One more thing (and this could have been a previous owner re-installing the console with an incorrect screw), the screw had penetrated the safety stop, a potentially bad situation for the polyamid tunnel line. Definitely worth checking before reassembly.Easy to check.




Old 01-16-2014, 11:50 PM
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Thanks for the detailed write up. I'm hoping to tackle this project and was dreading it. now not so much.
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:13 AM
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Wow that is a detailed write up, thank you very much. Maybe I'll only remove my steering wheel instead of the driver's seat. I don't mind leaning over the seat, but I hate squeezing between the steering wheel and seat, and usually end up hitting my head off the steering wheel.
Old 01-17-2014, 06:42 AM
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I did this job on my '77 Turbo this past September using Len's tunnel lines. I used the same method, made a connector that I cut off from an old fuel line.

I ground the backside(shortened) of the fitting enough to expose full threads and ground the OD as small as possible.


I took the drivers seat out, the rear shift coupler access plate, the center console, the shifter (I was doing bushing replacement) and pulled back the carpet from the front of the tunnel to get access to the front access opening. I removed the transmission mount and supported the transmission with a jack stand, disconnected the throttle linkage and the clutch cable. I had the steering rack out for rebuild and greasing. I connected the new line to rear end of the old line and pulled from the front.

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Old 01-17-2014, 09:12 AM
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