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Weekend Worrier
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dap930 View Post
I did this job on my '77 Turbo this past September using Len's tunnel lines. I used the same method, made a connector that I cut off from an old fuel line.

I ground the backside(shortened) of the fitting enough to expose full threads and ground the OD as small as possible.

Ha! Great minds think alike! I did the same thing yesterday but whimped out and got all scared there weren't enough threads to hold it together if it got loose..Glad to know it worked too! Yours is much better smoother too. Mine kept getting to hot to hold, and when I tried to hold it with pliers, the sander would catch an edge and it would fling off out into the yard! Oh well!
Old 01-17-2014, 10:19 AM
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Alright... I know this thread has probably too much stuff in it already, but I hit some serious frustrating things today, and I want to share what I found to "de-fuse" some issues. Also... It's about 28 degrees outside and because of the gas fumes, Ive got the garage doors open, so basically all my posting an excuse for me to warm up.

AND - I am posting this with the express intent of saving knuckles!

Todays PIA project: Front lines/ return line flipflop, and tightening the front lines.
With the rack in place, there is so little room to work, it's silly.

Challenge#1: Here's an unpleasant little surprise I was unaware of concerning installing the ss front return line:
That's a support tab. It's a ******. and you just know you somehow have to feed the line through it.





Challenge #2: Also, the front return line has a nice elbow that attaches into the gas tank- here's the old one before I cut it. Logic would dictate that you would install the new line in the same way...especially if your steering rack was out and you had plenty of room. So I installed the new line as such, and ran into serious problems with lack of space attaching the front line into the main tunnel, You wouldn't know there was going to ba a problem if the rack was out, and you wont discover the problem until you've spent 20 minutes fishing in the new line if the rack is in......


We won't go into the tirade of cursing installing it only to find there was a better solution.. Lets get to the solution- Basically, Len's line has a similar elbow, but I ended up flipping it in reverse and attaching the elbow to the main tunnel lines for space reasons.

Overall, it ended up having a nice flow to it (in reverse)

If you decide to go this route, I (had a ***** of a time) was able to feed it over the rack and through the support tab like this. Knuckle saving tip #1: notice the 90 degree elbow is coming through first. Weirdly, the elbow fits through better than the non- elbow side when you are feeding it through. I could NOT get the "non elbow" side to fit through at all. Maybe you can, but I couldn't. Knuckle saving tip #2: Notice that I am feeding the line from an angle coming in from the front "outside" of the car over and to the rear of the rack on the "inside" towards the center of the car. It was not a "straight over" the rack or "inside" to "outside" deal. Knuckle saving tip #3: If you have a "bump steer"kit with a raised steering rack. Ignore all of this and run your lines underneath the rack.


Basically I fed it from front over to the back and once the nut came over, I used some old fuel line as a puller to help it along:




Challenge #3: And now... the connections of death:


With the brake lines, AC, steering rack, and each line so close to one another, I ended up modifying 17mm and 14mm brake wrenches to get in there...Basically sanded off knurles making it a true open ended wrench.
These brake wrenches are cheap and available at any car parts store. These wrenches also made reconnecting the rear tunnel/rear lines in the transmission area a breeze. Before modifying these wrenches, they weren't worth a damn. I wouldn't use them on brakes anymore (they never worked on brakes very well anyway), but now, these are now my favorite tight space wrenches!


These wrenches JUST fit.....



So here's the finished front: also, someone pointed out I ran the high pressure line under the rack instead of over it. A previous owner had routed the line that way, so I was unaware that this configuration was not stock. I like it though. There are no sharp bends and the line rubs against nothing (including the skid plate).






And thus concludes one of the most dreaded projects in porschedom!

Last edited by LEAKYSEALS951; 02-02-2014 at 12:51 AM..
Old 01-17-2014, 11:01 AM
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What year is your car, and what went wrong with the fuel lines?
Old 01-17-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearya View Post
What year is your car, and what went wrong with the fuel lines?
1978. Dry rot. More preventative than anything.
Ron
Old 01-17-2014, 11:48 AM
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Interesting. I thought model years that late had an improved plastic that lasted a loooooong time.
Old 01-17-2014, 01:28 PM
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I have a custom application and wanted threaded fittings all the way around. Len's lines make this swap easy and keep the same long life of the stock material.
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearya View Post
Interesting. I thought model years that late had an improved plastic that lasted a loooooong time.
Yeah, if there's one thing I've learned here in the past couple of months is that polyamide is pretty robust stuff. In retrospect, I could have probably sectioned off the front lines, had Len make me up a new set and just secure them with clamps, but my last car burnt up and I'm SUPER paranoid about this stuff right now. Secondly, I really liked Len's lines and the flexibility of having the connectors for future projects. Finally, since most of the preparatory work would be the same for replacing the front and rear lines.(with the exception of removing the interior stuff-most of which, turned out I didn't need to remove), I decided to go for it.

Last edited by LEAKYSEALS951; 01-19-2014 at 03:50 AM..
Old 01-18-2014, 01:26 AM
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Leakyseals,

I see you ran your front pressure under the steering rack. I had to do the same because the return and pressure lines crossed over each other if routed over the top of the rack. In my case, the the lines were pinched due to lack of overhead space from a raised steering rack (spacers) and anti-dive geometry 930 front suspension. Len said he could send me a longer front pressure line so the crossover could occur in front of the steering rack, but I said mine was OK as is.

As far as access to the front tunnel line fittings, this whole job is much easier if the steering rack is out, but removal adds a lot to the job. When reinstalling the steering rack, it was difficult to get the center section past the 90* bends of the front rubber lines. It would have been easier to disconnect them, but I already did a leak check.

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Old 01-20-2014, 07:41 AM
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A job I have yet to start - courage needed it seems

I was not planning on doing this - had no reason to suspect anything was wrong but when I took off the skid plate which protects the fuel pump (because I needed to replace a brake line) I was horrified to see how rusty the fuel pump pipe fittings were. I reckon if I try to undo the fittings the pipes will instantly break. 1988 SSE Targa
Ever since I bought my Targa I have been disappointed by some of the design practice used by Porsche - it's almost as if their engineers were trained at Lotus - but I won't start a rant on the engineering of my Elan +2S130 as I don't have enough time.
Old 01-23-2014, 12:25 PM
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I did this job in about 2 hours with the engine/trans out. The hardest part was getting the sealing rings out of the tunnel. There are 4 in all i finally just pushed them in with a flat blade screwdriver and retrieved them later. Of course, I am replacing them with new ones. The shifter, e-brake, rear cover and seats were removed. I used a few wraps of electrical tape to connect the old line to the new one and after cutting the front lines, keeping them as long as I could, pulled the lines through with a friend pushing from the rear. Each line took about 2 minutes to pull through. Thanks Len for a quality product, great service and awesome communication.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:51 PM
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Nice work guys.

For future consideration, I am happy to work with anyone who wants hoses made longer or shorter or with different fittings.

I can make these with 45's at the tunnel or whatever is needed. I can now make custom bends (with certain limitations) and have often sent hoses un-assembled for fitment and return for final crimping. Nice part is Priority Mail is only $6 for most short hoses.

One Pelican has successfully made these hoses work on a 73 911 w steel tunnel lines and updated front pump location. Another is working on a dual front pump setup for a race application.

Photos when available.

Len



PS- M14 Connectors are at the Platers now. Hope to have them available in a week.
Len

Last edited by BoxsterGT; 02-01-2014 at 12:55 AM..
Old 02-01-2014, 12:51 AM
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Great thread, wish I would have seen it earlier, I just replaced the lines on my 930. It would have been key to see that map of the tunnel...arrrg! It took me 2 weekends working solo and I would put it on par with the exhaust removal. My pull thru device failed, taped new-old lines, and I had to blindly run the lines. I could not get them to run thru the last rear bracket, somehow they kept tracking on the medial side...I wire tied them to be sure they cleared everything, so far so good. If was doing it again I'd sacrifice the female ends of the old lines and screw the the new male ends securely then pull them thru after eliminating the 90deg bends too. I'd also make sure I had a helper, too hard to do solo.
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Old 02-01-2014, 07:26 AM
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Here are the M14 connectors to help pull through the new tunnel lines. Have yet to try them but they should work.



Anyone who would like one N/C please email me w address. I will include this with any Tunnel line purchased in the future.

Thanks for the great idea. This Pelican board is tops.

Len

Old 02-13-2014, 05:07 AM
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I need to do this on my '75 soon. Great information, especialy the tunnel drawings!
Old 02-13-2014, 10:07 AM
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Did mine tonight with Len's lines and M14 connector tool mentioned above. Granted, i do not have my engine, trans or interior in but this was cake. I was nervous after reading all of the horror stories, ended up pleasantly surprised that both lines went in without any real difficulty.
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:53 PM
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You people are outstanding, great thread. I am suitable impressed and scared ****less.. another mind numbing project to add to the ones I have lived through...atlanta
Old 09-02-2014, 08:25 PM
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The following adds to the database of installing a fuel line.

Vehicle: '69 911T
Gas tank: Updated tank with fuel return port connection
Drivetrain: Not installed

Objective: Install a return line due to updated engine install (existing is a single factory deadhead fuel line for carbs.)
Strategy:
- Install a flex line w/preinstalled end fittings (from Len aka BoxsterGT).
- Use/adapt factory rigid lines (from SC/Carrera) from rear tunnel to engine.
- Len also suggested converting the existing rigid fuel supply line as a return line to the tank (vehicle doesn't care - okay). He also provided add'l lines at the front for FP and return line to tank.

Environment:
Required a hole in rear tunnel bulkhead for the added line. A 1" Greenlee hole punch for electrical panels provided a nice, clean hole, same location as in later vehicles. There's an existing plugged hole in the front for E and S models w/MFI.

Flex line installation:
Since there wasn't an existing line to pull the new flexy line in place and the flex line would normally go in a curved direction, I opted to use a semi-rigid guide to direct the flex line through the desired path in the tunnel (Refer to Ron's - Leakyseal951 nice writeup, post #34). I happened to have some lengths of small diameter (~1/8"/3.5mm) CF rods (FG rods are pretty equivalent), small enough for the flex line to easily side over the rod. Guide rod kits used by electricians to fish wire through walls may also work, but not confirmed.

1) From the rear, two 60" lengths of rod were securely taped end-to-end and routed through the newly punched hole and proper paths in the tunnel.
2) A helper at the top front-most tunnel opening guides the rod toward, then through the front bulkhead tunnel hole.
3) Insert the flex line over the rod from the rear and push it forward through the tunnel. The helper observes and helps guide the fuel line into position.
4) Withdraw the guide rod

There are additional fuel line connections at either end of the tunnel to engine and fuel pump/fuel tank, but these are covered in other posts.

Hope this helps,
Sherwood
Old 01-04-2015, 10:44 AM
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Gents, I'm on the cusp of ordering the necessary goods from Len to do this job in my 82 'SC. Engine and trans are out. Leakyseal: horrifying story of your 951....we all have tales to tell, but yours is truly hardcore. I once had an 89 S2, thus extra empathy for the loss of such an appealing and special car. Thanks for your thorough write-up. Sherwood: great strategy (use of flexible rod, then passing tubes over said rod), ingenious and practical. What did the rest of do when we were stuck on a technical problem prior to Al Gore inventing the www? Kind regards, John in CT.
Old 01-04-2015, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeffries View Post
Gents, I'm on the cusp of ordering the necessary goods from Len to do this job in my 82 'SC. Engine and trans are out.
Good luck, with the engine/trans out it should be a breeeze!
R
Old 01-04-2015, 01:07 PM
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Can anyone help me. I inherited a car with fuel lines out of the car; so am unsure what it is 'supposed' to look like. Based on the pictures I am hoping for some help to get clarity about 2 things. Because these are fuel lines I want to make sure I do it the right way to avoid any issues a few years down the road...

It is an '87 911 (no turbo!)

1. The front bracket is bent in a Z shape with both the throttle and brake line captured by the bracket. I am unclear however if that is correct and was the bracket supposed to be a Z? I was thinking maybe the two fuel lines should go behind and the bracket bent down around them but had seen a picture in the thread below with the throttle behind the bracket which seemed like that shouldn't touch the fuel lines since it moves. Part of my angst is I don't know if he had redone the throttle already and maybe routed it differently that stock as it regards the bracket.
Should I replace theses brake and fuel lines?




Second picture down in the front access panel where you can see the fuel lines ready to be routed somewhere!



2. The rear I don't see any bracket through the access hole; should there be one? Do I need one? Once I have the grommets in places and have it through the tunnel It seems like maybe I don't. This is a picture looking up towards the front.

Old 02-01-2015, 01:41 PM
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