Looking for advise on a 1978 911SC Targa

[bugstrider]

Hello,

I know that this has nothing to do with our beloved 912's, but I am looking for some guidance from our members who also are 911 owners too. Since we do not belong to any 911 forums, I thought I would start here first. I will post pictures when I get a closer look at it.

My wife and I were recently approached by a good friend who is aware of our fondness for 912's. He has found himself in a position where he needs to sell off his 1978 911SC. He has offered the car to us for a very tempting price. However, I will be the first to admit I know nothing about the 78 911SC platform.

This is what I have on the car:

1978 911SC Targa platform, body and interior are in great condition for a 34 year old car. Engine has an original 254,000 miles. Over-pressure valves in the Air-Boxes but don't know about the head-bolts or tensioner type that are two other hot points. The current owner said it squeaked by smog last go around and it does leak some oil as I assume most do. When looking at the car I am interested in some pointers to look for or other potential pitfalls with this car. Our friend is the third owner and the original owner put Carrera badges and a tail on it. Other than that, it is all original.

As I mentioned, the good price is the main driving force in the interest since I had never thought I could ever consider owning a 911.

Any thought would be appreciated,

Trevor

[tonythetarga]

There is a buyers guide on the main 911 page near the tech articles. I suggest you review that and then search for threads on the 3.0 and 915 transmissions. You nailed a couple of key issues with chain tensioners and cylinder studs. When you say original miles...does that mean the engine has never been rebuilt as well as the odo reflecting the distance traveled for that chassis?
What records come with the car? You need some type of maintenance history to know whether the purchase price is a value to you or not. If you're getting the car for under 10k (just assuming for discussion sake) then you are probably getting a fair price. A real steal would be 5-6k and even with an engine rebuild, you still come out ahead, or at worst, even, compared to the market value of the car providing the chassis is rust free.

[Jdub]

Super car - just what I currently own. If the price is around 10-11K or less you probably ought to purchase it IF you have the garage space and the spousal permissions. This is key. I guess I am saying that you really cannot lose at certain prices.

Be sure to get a PPI, but not to insult your friend. If you purchase this car you can never complain about it, esp. if the price is killer. You took on the orphan, head studs and all.

The SC is a particularly solid car, like a hammer. Helps to know the cars, and have a decent toolbox around. And of course this BBS.

Good luck!

[bugstrider]

Thanks for your replies,

I plan on taking a look at the records my friend has and after I posted my question to the PP site, my buddy offered for me take the car for a couple of days. That time frame might just co inside with a possible PPI and pre-test, just for the sake of checking.

There is no question I love the body lines of these great cars. I'm just trying to keep a mindfulness about myself and not falling into the old analogy of " love is blind". I fell victim to that with a 912. But heck, isn't it all about the journey and metal repairs are commencing. I have spousal permission but that also means selling a Honda Civic commuter car and donating an Acura Legend to a charity. It's all about give and take with a pinch of cool car factor thrown in for good measure. At least that is what I keep telling myself...

I will check out the purchasing guide as well and to answer the earlier question, yes. I believe that everything is an original 254k on the engine and trans. Records will show if there has been any prior tear downs.

Cheers

[rrental]

For what it's worth, I paid $ 7500 for my 1978 SC. 220K miles about 2 years ago. Reasonably maintained and pretty much stock.

The body is rock solid and virtually rust free. No worries there. Just took the engine apart and it for sure needs some attention. With massive slack on the chain I am surprised it actually got this far!

Back to your car, you are for sure on the right track looking for the weak points. 250K miles is a long way, and rebuilds aren't cheap. If you get it for a good price you might have some room in the budget to take care of some issues in the future.

[porwolf]

My $0.02 are: I had a 912 before I had a '69 011T. That was followed by a '72T Targs and finally a '79 SC Targa. Of all these cars I liked the '79 the best. It has the most power and is the smoothest to ride. Even the step from the 912 to the 911 was enormous. The 912 was anemic compared to the 911's. The 911 body just seemed to heavy for that 356 4-cylinder engine. Before that 912 I did drive a 356B that was a completely different story, great car!

[Juggino]

Here is a bit of a long winded but totally honest run down, take a few minutes it might be helpful.

I also own a 1978 SC Targa with 72K miles. It was my first Porsche and bought it without knowing anything about the car. If I knew what to look for and did my due diligence I would have never bought it. To be honest, that would have been the mistake. Although the car needed a top end due to 3 broken head studs, the rest of the car was solid. Now after learning a ton about these cars I look back and I am thrilled that I did choose to buy it. I love the car and think I will never sell it. I also own a pristine 1986 Carrera with 45K, totally perfect and original. To be honest I have a much stronger attachment to the Targa.

I have come to the general conclusion that if the car is cheap to buy you need to add 15k, just to have the car safe and generally up to date. If the guy before you did it you will pay a bit more and a good bit of the required items were taken care of.

First try to understand what was done to the car and when. This is a 34 year old car and if not touched, there are a many items that need attention just from a safety standpoint as I am sure you know. Such as rebuilding brake calipers, new rotors, brake lines, all suspension and steering bushings. etc.

The key for you is basically ask yourself how sorted out you want the car to be to be happy with it. I know people happy to just have a decent driver and also people who have dropped 40K into there similar cars.From what info you wrote it seems you will be spending an easy 10K on a top end with upgraded tensioners, and all the "while you are in there" items. Being realistic, after the top end, then think of the items I mentioned above, a few more loose ends and your at 15K. Now you will have a decent, pretty reliable, pretty safe driver. Still have not touched the tranny, interior, or any cosmetics. Want proper air conditioning? add 3-4K.

Since owning it I have dropped mucho dinero because I want it fully sorted. I have touched almost every part on the car at this point and I am in for about 25K. I feel I have another 10K left on doing the AC, oil and brake lines and a few minors.

On the plus side, once sorted out, they are very reliable cars especially the 3.0 and 3.2 platforms. Not to mention that feeling that you cannot get with any other car. I do not regret one single dollar spent. I also will add that it has been a great journey, since buying the car, I have met may friends, gone on many road trips with groups, DE sessions. If i had bought a ice water cooled modern Porsche I would have never had these great experiences.

[NYNick]

As they say, they're all $25k cars sooner or later….some way more than that.

Juggino, I'd love to see your car some day, and compare notes with my 78. Do you go to the Metro events at Tobay etc.?

Nick

[bugstrider]

First and most importantly, thank you everyone who replied. I had the car for an extended two week test drive which I was able to get the car through smog and a PPI completed by Franks, here in Sacramento.

It's a 35 year old sports car with aches n pains. Need to address several things but nothing mind blowingly too bad unless the engine grenades. Oil leaks, clutch adjust, non-op blower fan motor, etc. Heater controls a bit sticky and the old AC is MIA. But the price I paid allows some wiggle room. The PO owned it since 02 and gave me such a deal because he wanted it to go to a good home and not a flipper. We are currently working on two 68 912 projects but it will be years before I'm back on the road with those. Gotta love rusty metal......not!

Here are a few picks of the new ride.

[Carl83911]

What year is the car? I though you were looking at a 78SC. I'm just curious 'cause it says Carrera on the rear lid.

Carl

p.s. I'm also in Sac and use Franks for my car. They're a pretty solid group. Nick and John are the ones I usually talk to.

[Rot 911]

Interesting all the Carrera parts on that SC. Front valance, 7" and 8" wheels (very nice and expensive upgrade), rear decklid and tail. What's the inside look like?

[boss11]

great looking car, congrats!!

[bugstrider]

Thanks everyone for the kind comments.

Here is the story on the car as it was explained to me.

Yes, it is a 78 911SC that was originally purchased by a Doctor in Paradise, CA. Who owned it for approx 6 years. The second owner who purchased it in 1984 wanted a Carerra but couldn't afford one at the time. So he had the car repainted a platinum over the original dark brown,, installed the tail and put Carerra badges on the back and front skirts do even floor matts. When it was repainted, they took the car completely apart and shot it like it came that way. All inner areas also reflect the new color too. I was told that Bertalucci's in Sac did the work. Paint isn't too bad for being 30 years old but it does have some flaws. I will be the fourth owner of the car.

I'm having fun with the car but am trying to be careful with the power-train due to the mileage. First gear protests slightly if I try to ram it home, but have found a slide into 2nd then up to 1st alleviates this issue. Frank's also mentioned that the first synchro is a little tight too. No surprises there with that many miles. I also need to replace the shifter bushings too. Should buy a little time. Anyway I look at it, I have no room to complain.

I will post some pics of the interior tomorrow. It is the regular dark brown leather, but the front seats were swapped out for cloth Recarro(sp) seats.

Carl83911,

I've dealt primarily with Nick. Great guys that work there and very knowledgable too. They were instrumental in my decision with regards to the car. One if the best car quotes I've heard to date was by Nick the day of my PPI. When I dropped the car off for the PPI, I told Nick I've been driving like Miss Daisy because one, it's not my car and two, I didn't want to grenade something because of the mileage. He proceeded to tell me that driving like Miss Daisy is bad for it. He stated the following, " You are considering purchasing a thoroughbred and it needs to be driven as such, if you want to drive like Miss Daisy, then buy yourself a plow horse". I just thought that was a neat philosophy, besides it made me laugh too.

Cheers

[86 ssinit]

Trevor nice car a lot of them were changed to look like the later carrera. Mine was, by changing the script on back and adding a carrera steering wheel. I changed the script back to the 911 sc think it looks better. Good luck with it they are a blast to drive. Great color too.

[bugstrider]

Update TIME!!!

Well, after pulling the preverbal trigger on this car I decided to dive right in..... I never can just let something be................

After picking up some of the different publications on this car, I started into the needed TLC repairs. I would also like to thank all of the PP members that have supplies the needed materials and advise on my quest to improve this great car. A local shop near my work in Auburn, CA have taken the car into their guidance and expertise. Tim and Gary over at RennTech have been great in their knowledge, expertise, skill, and advise on the little things I have done while Tim addressed the major items. As well as showing extreme patients in answering my dumb questions relating to all things 911 including all of my "pop-in's" into the shop.

Here is the engine out of the car...


Key leak point requiring the engine to come out for addressing..


One nasty, oil encrusted motor.


The transmission........ fugly!!!






Of course, a broken exhaust stud did change the game a little bit causing the head to be removed. Problematic? possibly, but it did present the opportunity to address some other items, so another silver lining presented itself.....again.





After a session with the wire wheel.



Upon a bit of time with the wire wheel, I decided to media blast the components and then treat with a high temp porcelain paint.

[bugstrider]

Here is some pictures of what I was able to do with the transmission after a liberal amount of elbow grease, scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing.....

BEFORE---------





AFTER the G.I. Party------------

[RDM]

That's beautiful Congratulations!

[BK911]

Holy shidoozle batman!
But you missed a spot.

[Slfan]

Congratulations. Looks great!

[bugstrider]

Thanks!!!

The trombone oil cooler was removed and replaced with a 28 tube brass and an air scoop that still needs to be installed. Upgraded the dash lights with new LEDs as well as upgrading the rear/stop/signal lights as well.


Looking into a third brake light option as well. Picked up a HELLA LED brake light unit but now thinking about the reduction of visible space with it designed to adhere to the top of the rear window. I did find a couple of LED brake light options that would require some custom modification to fit. The good news is how non-obtrusive they appear to be a first glance. Found an adjustable strip that can be cut to length and had a self adhesive back, allowing it to be fixed to a thin piece of aluminum and slid under the window seal or placed on the targa bar.







With the exhaust stub breaking, it required the CIS injection system to be removed to pull the head. That provided the opportunity to replace the injector sleeves that were allegedly were replaced in 2001 and had approximately 55K driven on them. However, in looking at these things, I would be willing to bet they were never replaced. This is supported by the fact the factory stamps were still unmolested and just by looking at these things due to their extremely poor condition. But that said, I did come across paperwork showing a bill for sleeve replacement in 2001. As mentioned before, a big thanks goes out to Tim at RennTech.

Another silver lining was presented to me when the engine was awaiting the return of the head. I took this opportunity to attack the three decades of grime on the engine case, cooling fins and shroud of the thick gooey oil/dirt/crud coat. Like the transmission, a lot of elbow grease and scrubbing took place. Between couple of the cylinders, it appeared there was a decomposed dead unidentifiable critter or what was left of it anyway. Anyhose, this is what it looked like after the cleaning session. Its not perfect but it looks a heck of a lot better than it did.

This is a general idea of what it looked like in the beginning.


After:







This also provided the opportunity to thoroughly clean the plastic cooling shroud and fan and fan housing. The cooling fan was another adventure in its own. The cooling fan on the SC was a two year only. The ID of the fan housing is slightly smaller than earlier and later models. Due to the pulley not properly fitted, it wiggles a little bit causing some honing of the steel center segment. Not an uncommon issue so I have found out. Had a local master welder run a fine TIG bead around it filling in the void and it wold require me to delicately file the bead down to where it needed to be. Not a big deal, just tedious until (insert dramatic music) the welder cocked up the housing by attempting to repair a small crack. Yes, I know it is a forged unit and I thought it could be addressed like the fan itself, so I had him attempt the repair. Well, it was such a botched job that the fan housing in non-usable unless I find a way to grind the tumor style welds down. Lucky for me I just happen to have a spare earlier model fan and housing that I was able to use after getting it all cleaned up. Once again the silver lining popped up. I guess the two year only fan design has shorter veins and the lager fan with longer veins allows more air for better cooling. So in my case its a "WIN WIN"!!!!!! Gotta keep the project positive and not be bothered about the little set-backs.

Again, I know it is far from a perfect clean job but I am happy with the results for now. I will admit, when faced with the inevitable overhaul, my ODC will kick into overdrive..LOL