Your opinions on my suspension choices please...

[BGCarrera32]

Hi!

Since we are all at work wasting time on the internet, perhaps you could provide some feedback on my project.

Let me give some background -- I have an 84 Carrera that needs some suspension work. I visibly have leaking shocks in back, cracked sway bar bushings, a clunck somewhere...time for some work. The car is all over the place, kinda does this butt-wag thing when you swerve the wheel, etc.

So its time to blow some money (within budget anyway). Based on what I have read, here is what I am thinking to do-- my goal is to freshen things up, make it handle very well (particularly around freeway ramps, etc.) but I don't want a pounding ride up my seat. In MN, we do have some lousy roads due to our winters. I am starting my project at the rear of the car, as its in the toughest shape.

So here goes...

-Blistein sport shocks from Pelican Parts all the way around
-22 front 28 rear "Sway-a-way" torsion bars
-Neatrix bushings on the swing plates
-poly bushings at the trailing arm points and sway bar mounts
-new sway bar drop links (leaving my swar bar sizes as is at this point)
-Lower car from US ride height and decide on new alignment specs
-Pelican sport engine mounts and tranny mounts

What do you think? I read many of the archived posts, but still iffy on ride harshness. Is this too rough? It will see track days next year. Are the Bilstein sports appropriately matched with the 28mm torsion bars?

Your "thumbs up / thumbs down" and constructive comments are appreciated...!

Thanks
-BG

[addictionMS]

I would add adjustable spring plates, since you are going to have it all apart, now is the time to put them in. later will be a *****.

might consider turbo tie rods, but they can be added later easy, swing plates can not be.


Jim

[911nut]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
-poly bushings at the trailing arm points and sway bar mounts
-

Poly bushings on the bananna arm will interfere with toe settings. Stay with stock bushings in that location.
I know Addiction recommended adjustable spring plates but since your on a budget (who isn't) the stock plates are ok. Just set them to the mean and adjust for corner balancing needs.
PB

[spinner]

Your rear sway bar mounts should be replaced as well. If they're not broken, they will be once you do the track thing. Put on them real beefy ones - you have to grind off the old ones and weld on the new ones. I would consider going to 29 mm on the rear t.b.

Have fun

Paul
87 Carrera

[addictionMS]

I have seen stock adjustable spring plates converted over to have a bolt adjusting the ride height like the ones you can buy. If you are going to get the sway bar mounts replaced, you might also have this done since you will be at a weld shop anyway...


Jim

[Chuck Moreland]

Just to confuse things....


Given your intended use - aggressive street driving, and your concern about ride smoothness, I would advise going with 21/27mm tbars. These will give you a firm suspension, less roll and more stability without being too harsh on rough roads.

I'd also suggest bilstein HD instead of sports.

And if you really want a budget solution you might just upgrade the rear tbars to 26mm and leave the front alone. The 26 is the "turbo" rear bar and can be found used cheaply. Then combine that with '86-'88 factory sway bars which are bigger and available used cheaply.

Definetely fix that torn sway bar mount and reinforce it.

I wouldn't spend your cash on the swayaway spring plates, you have the factory adjustables already. And it's a street car so you won't be messing with height/corner balance that often.

Ditto above comments about the poly trailing arm bushings, they bind. Go with rubber replacements. Or if you have a few weeks to play with and want a hot solution wait for the rear monoballs that will be available from www.elephantracing.com in about 3 weeks. These replace the rubber bushings with a spherical bearing that doesn't bind, yet has zero deformation.

Replace your front control arm bushings with street hardness poly items.

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland

I'd also suggest bilstein HD instead of sports.

Chuck, can you expand on this? I have the sport suspension from the factory and assumed the sports were the *better* shocks. Just put new sports on all corners.

Any anticipated cost on the monoballs?

Cheers
-Brad
80SC

[addictionMS]

boy, I really think the adjustable spring plates are worth doing, they are a bear to do, but once in, they facilitate changing torsion bars. I would go for the spring plates before the torsion bars. It is easy to add stiffer torsion bars after the spring plates are inplace. not so if done the other way around. you can then shop the classifieds and pick up a used set of torsion bars when you see a good price, and know it will be easy to put them in.

I am currently putting an updated suspension on a 1970 chassis and I know I am putting my money into bushings and spring plates. The things that are hard to change later. Front struts are a hard to replace so doing those while you have it apart is a good idea, along with the bushings. you need to match the rear shocks to the front, but they are a snap to change, so they can be delayed if needed.

I guess my order of priority, is based on "hard to do later", and the assumption you will not be able to stop adding after the initial changes, and eventually this will be a very trackable car. I know I am not able to start a project and only go half way.

[BGCarrera32]

Chuck---diddo---what exactly is the Bilstein "HD" (please elaborate) if you can. I've heard of them but not sure what the differences are or where to get them.

I currently have original BOGEs...plan to just swap the cartridges in the front.

Thanks!!!

[Vipergrün]

HD = Heavy Duty, but I do not know which is stiffer, those, or the Sports and am curious about the applications for each.

cheers
-Brad
80SC

[Chuck Moreland]

Bilstein HD is the "normal" bilstein, still much firmer than a boge and gives great control and feel.

The Sport is about 25% firmer than the HD. The damper should be matched to the tbars, so you want the sports on really big tbars and HD on factory bars and slightly bigger. I think 22/28 is about the crossover point.

Jim, I am suggesting foregoing the sway aways because he is budget conscious, his car is intended for street use (set it and forget it), and he already has adjustable factory plates. If it was an early car with fixed spring plates or intended for the track with lots of future tweaking planned, then I would agree the sway aways are a good choice.

[Vipergrün]

Thanks Chuck

The window sticker for my SC shows option group F26, which includes *sport shocks*. Wonder if that was front AND rear. Oh well, plan on larger t-bars anyway

Cheers
-Brad
80SC

[dickster]

bg

seems about right.

i've an '86 and the bits and pieces i've picked up have lead to similar ideas.

22/28
sports shocks
neatrix
poly
inside banana arm stock bushing

the tb's are supposed to make a hell of a difference.

btw-i ordered sport shocks and according to the pn's they sent i got a sport/hd combo.

i wouldn't bother with the spring plates - yours are adjustable right?

should be great after that lot - from what i hear

[pbs911]

Sounds good. I second, third or fourth the HD on the front and the Sport on the rear.

22/28 are recommended by BA and I like mine.

Neatrix swing plate bushings are good, but will not work with the Sway-Away spring plates unless you remove some of the material.

Poly swaybar bushings and A-arm bushings. Be sure to install a zirk fitting and channel the bushings for future greasing.

Don't forget the bumpsteer kit, at least the washer type. And don't forget to remove that 1lb, 10mm washer at the top of the shock housing. This will allow better shock travel at the lower than US ride height.

I also went with a pair of sway bars from a 86-89 Carrera. These are 22/21 mm and bolt right on. These could be had at a cost comprable to just new drop links. Reinforce the rear sway bar mount.

Just be sure to do everything on the suspension at one time. Other wise you will have to pay twice for CB/alignment and height adjustment. And have someone who really knows has to set up the car do it. Almost any shop can set the alignment, but few can make it work well. You can spend all the money in the world but if it is not set up right you are waisting money on the parts.

[Chuck Moreland]

Originally posted by bb80sc


Chuck, can you expand on this? I have the sport suspension from the factory and assumed the sports were the *better* shocks. Just put new sports on all corners.

Any anticipated cost on the monoballs?

Cheers
-Brad
80SC

The Rear Monoball cartridges list for $240/pair. They replace the trailing arm inner bushing with a hardened steel spherical bearing. Unlike the poly bushings, there is no binding. Unlike rubber bushings there is no deformation, so rear suspension settings are maintained through heavy corner loads.

These are a rear suspension equivelant to Elephant Racing Front Monoballs

Shipping expected mid October. If you'd like to order through PP I am sure Wayne would be happy to take the order and get it on board.

[baratta930]

Brad,

I believe that the SC Sport suspension had Bilstein shocks. Check your shock housings, if they are green then you have Bilsteins already and it's cheaper to just have them rebuilt than to buy new ones, but I've been told that it can take a while to get them rebuilt if Bilstein is behind on the work.

It's supposed to cost $50 ea to rebuild (plus shipping), at least when I called last year that's what they told me.

Hope this helps ...

Berardino
84 930

[surflvr911sc]

Has anyone here ran Sports front & back? I was thinking about doing this. I have only met one guy who did and he liked it. Is the reason it's gererally not done b/c of a rough street ride? Also, would it not make sense to upgrade my shocks before the torsion bars?

[baratta930]

My friend runs 22/28 with stock swaybars and Bilstein sports. it's mainly a track car but he does run it on the street and I don't find it any worse than my stock 930. It's just right for the street. More I think would be bad ...

He has an 87 Carrera, so given the weight difference, you may want to go 21/27 for an SC. If he did it again, he would go 23/30, but that's because his car is becoming much more track than street, so he doesn't car so much about street drivability ...

Berardino
84 930