early sport seats/ standard or optional??

[Rick Cabell]

Does anyone know for sure wether 69-73 911S cars had sport seats as standard equipment or was it optional? I have argued this point with several enthusiasts and nobody won. I just bought a 71S with the original window sticker that I know for a fact came from the factory with sport seats. Under standard equipment or options, sport seats are not mentioned. Brett Johnson's book states that they were "always avalable as a option".
Anyone have the clear story on this?

[campbellcj]

They were optional. On at least one 72S concours car I've seen, they were mentioned on the window sticker.

One thing that's controversial is whether any cars came with just a driver's side sport seat and standard passenger seat. That's how my former E was configured when I bought it; however, the Cert of Auth (Kardex) did not list any sport seat option. There was a car like this at the Autofest also. Does your Kardex Cert reveal anything?

[Rick Cabell]

Even though I'm 3000 miles away, I was at the Autofest also. Didn't see the car. The Kardex says nothing about sport seats. Both the salesman and original owner say it came with sport seats. Also there were several other witnesses at delivery that can swear to it that I have interviewed. It will be interesting to see what the other comments will say.

[silverc4s]

They were an option. Over the years, I have seen a number of 69 -73 S cars with standard seats, including on the showroom floor.
My own 1970 S was optioned with power windows, dealer installed A/C included, for use in Bakersfield, CA. But it had standard seats, in vinyl, not even leather anywhere in the interior.
The issue is getting muddied now because virtually every restored S gets $2000 worth of sport seats installed, and of course they are "original"

[pwd72s]

Rick, I don't know about earlier years, but in '72 I'm sure they were optional.

[GeorgeK]

They were even an option on the '73 RS. Most importers would put them in as an "importer equipment", but Switzerland wouldn't. They are in the option list. My RS didn't have them. Of course I have 2 sport seats to put in to have it "original"
GeorgeK

[GIBSON]

Bill has a good point. So many S cars are restored with sport seats that they seem to be standard. They were not. I had a 73S coupe, Irish green just like Paul's, equipped with standard
seats, no external oil cooler, just a basic car. The guy I sold it to put in sport seats. So, if it's on the Kardex, it came with them. If not, they were added.

[marc weintraub]

Hi Rick,

Congratulations on your wonderful purchase! Here's the scoop... 1971 only the "S" cars had the sport seats as standard equipment. It was the only year that this happened in, with all other years having them as options.

As it turns out, the reason why many Cardex's don't have them listed in 71 is because they were not an option, making this a bit confusing. The 911 "T & E" in 71 did not have them as standard equipment, so they would turn up on the Cardex. 1971 was a very unique year for the early "S" cars because it was supposed to have the sport seats and a rear aluminum deck lid as standard equipment. Most of the engine lids have gone bye bye and the seats were always a point of contention. I had a 71"S" that came from the factory with both items still intact, but the cardex did not indicate either. never the less, I had pictures of the car leaving the dealership in 71 and there they were. Thye were not on the window sticker either. At one point, I had asked the saem ones you did.

Hope this helps..

All The Best,

Marc Weintraub

[pwd72s]

Hell, I'll admit it..I added mine. When I bought the car, it had standards seats, full leather interior. Beige color. In 1978 or so, not sure of the year now, Stoddards offered a set in Beige leather on a "close out", for I believe $750 or so. I jumped at 'em. Sold the stock seats for $500. Should I regret the move??? Probably I should have stepped up and bought a set of highback sports seats, right???

[Rick Cabell]

This car has something I have never seen before on a early car. The window sticker says "full leather interior". Not just the front and rear seats, but the door panel tops,door panels front and rear,and complete rear parcel shelf. Never seen that much factory leather in a early car,has anyone else?

[marc weintraub]

Rick,

My car has the full leather pack also, except for the dash top and door top (caps that complete the door panel.

Marc

[silverc4s]

Marc,
1970 S came with decklid and rear center section of Aluminum as standard. Mine still has.

The other confusing issue is the S front spoiler. Many cars were (sensibly) retrofitted with these in the mid to late 70's by the original owner. mine included.

PS Your input is the first I have heard of the 1971 S with standard sport seats....interesting

[marc weintraub]

Hi Bill,

I knew I wasn't going crazy on that one, but you can also find that information on page 66 of Dr. Johnsons, "A Restorers Guide To Authenticity". I got my information from a close friend at Porsche.

As far as the rear deck lid was concerned, the last year for that was 1971 and if I remember correctly they were used from 1969-1971. Regarding the front split chin spoiler... it was only offered on street cars from 1972-1973, the rest were added on later on in the cars life by the owner, etc.

Marc

[Rick Cabell]

Marc,
Thanks for the great info! I suspected that was the case with 71S model year, now you have confirmed it. BTW, my front door trim tops are leather. Aluminum rear deck and L.P. panel are there as they should be.
Paul....$750?? Think they have another set?
I was looking though some early 70's Panos,and your could buy these seats from Recaro for $139 each!! Exact same as the OE seats we are talking about!

[silverc4s]

Rick wrote: "I was looking though some early 70's Panos,and your could buy these seats from Recaro for $139 each!! Exact same as the OE seats we are talking about!"

Yeah, well those days are gone..

[john_colasante]

You guys are funny trying to figure out exacting rules for the early cars. My impression is that things were quite flexible back then and documentation was subpar by today's computerized standards. Furthermore dealers added an extra level of customization that is not typical today. So there will be alot of variation with exception cases being very common.

[marc weintraub]

Rick,

No problem... I love this stuff! If you are ever in New York, let's get together.... with or without the cars.

John,

Back then their weren't that many items that were added on by the dealer. The few that I remember were the Hella driving and/or fog lights, a/c (if it didn't come from the factory with it)and front loop oil coolers if the car was a 73 that a/c was added to. The rest seemed to be readily available from the factory. The interesting aspect of why people try to get this information is because this will allow us to better understand the rarity of our cars. Most other items were changed by the owners as things failed or needed changing. Certainly the sport seats were one such item.

All The Best,

Marc

[Rick Cabell]

Marc,
Just heard from a guy in Pa. who is watching this thread. He says the Buckingham meet is this weekend....Are you going? This in the past has been the "east coast" registry meet. Unfortunatly, I can't go.

[marc weintraub]

Rick,

Can't make it either. My car is already pretty much put away for the rest of the season. Living in Manhattan, I really don't drive very much and the car rarely does more than 500 miles in a year.

I wish I was treated so nicely!

Marc

[Neilk]

Marc,

Question for you? Was the front oil cooler optional on '73S? I have a targa with factory AC but oddly enough no oil cooler. What a combo. I know of one other '73S targa with the same config.

Also, my car has an aluminum rear deck and used to have an aluminum rear LP panel. Where those standard? I am a little confused when you say they weren't standard after '71.

Thanks for you expertise.