Is the 959 a 911?

[HistoryBuff]

Couldn't find any category for 959 so I will put my question here. I am looking for a oood example of a 959, not to buy, but just to write about if it was bought cheap because 1.)buyer didn't know if he could legalize it 2.)it was caught in a import wrangle. Would prefer story with happy ending but will take one with sad ending if I have to just to show that certain cars are caught in legal limbos. The one I remember most is that Bill Gates imported a 959 and had to wait something like ten years to get it legalized, even getting a law passed for self importers like himself to make it easier in the future.

[CountD]

No, a 959 is not a 911. That's why they numbered it a 959.

[65rsr]

The True Story of Porsche 959

[FrenchToast]

Several 959s have now come to the states. Canepa started modifying quite a few of them to meet U.S. (including California) emissions. Along with the legalization package they bumped the power (don't know the details), and also modified the wheels to accept tires other then very special Dunlop Denlocs. (Said Denlocs are still in limited production however).

Now that the 959 is 25 years old (most of them at least), many more are coming in as well.

A lot of the stateside ones are Canepa'ed (yes I made up that word), but a handful aren't. A lot of them are on the west coast but a handful are scattered throughout the states.

The gentleman who runs this very forum has one! Wayne himself! His user name is Wayne at Pelican Parts.

Before Canepa started importing and modifying 959's, I think you could count stateside 959's on one hand. I want to say there are probably 20 in the states now? One of them was recently discovered with delivery miles (or very close to delivery miles) on it - essentially unused and covered in dust. It has since been cleaned up.

I believe the 959 import issue is what started the "Show and Display" law. I don't know the details, but I think it allows cars to be imported and registered but with a strict (very) yearly mileage cap.

There was also a big issue in that to legalize the car the DOT wanted to crash-test a 959 - I forget how that was resolved. I recall someone brought one in just for that purpose (Porsche wouldn't sponsor it), but I may be wrong.

Wayne here is the resident expert and can tell you a lot. He also runs the 959 Registry: http://www.959registry.org/

Another gentleman on here, user roarmac is rebuilding a damaged 959. It is quite a process!

A few people on Rennlist (another Porsche forum) also have 959s.

Originally Posted by CountD

No, a 959 is not a 911. That's why they numbered it a 959.

A lot of 911's aren't officially numbered as such......

[LakeCleElum]

Bill Gates brought one in the country........It was impounded by Customs for a few years......

[CountD]

AmeriSpec in Danbury CT did the first LEGAL conversion of a 959 - two of Ralph Laurens cars. I know this for sure, and it was in '87-'88. There was once five in the shop.

However, in my experience of working, driving, and doing pretty much everything to a 959 - it is not a 911, it is a 959.

[Dave Colangelo]

No its not a 911 but it shares quite a bit with the 911. The earliest prototypes (I think there were 3) were built on 930 chassis. To the best of knowledge from the reading I have done it seems like these prototypes were mainly to test the engine I am not sure if these prototypes even had the 4WD system yet. The car of course looks like a 911 but has many differences. It for one was the first 4WD variant that Porsche made, I think it was the first twin turbo, and it was well, awesome. It paved the way for much of technology that followed.

As for bringing them into the states. The legend as I know it is that Porsche did not want to donate the cars required for the crash tests to the DOT. Basically they were so awesome Porsche could not bear to see them smashed. Thus the cars were never approved for road use in the US. Keep in mind that at the time there were euro versions of many cars (the 911 included) that did not include the clunky impact bumpers and emissions business that the US required so non US legal cars were not all that uncommon. Also as mentioned at some point down the road the "Show And Display Car Act" was passed. This basically exempted old, and rare cars from needing to submit to DOT regulations.

All the information seems to be here and it seems to be that you cant drive it more than 2500 miles a year. How To Import A Motor Vehicle For Show Or Display


Regards
Dave

[HistoryBuff]

..the owner thought the task of federalizing it too daunting?

This is a case where buying the car is a small expense probably compared to the costs of Federalizing it.

If you can name a seller or buyer and the approximate price I can talk about it on my radio show (Autotalk, KUCR FM Riverside).

Also as far as that "show and display law," I heard Bill Gates himself was the impetus behind the law, sponsoring it, and thus benefitted it, albeit years after he first wanted to import the car. I think it should be allowed to bring in non conforming cars for a few years because how is the American auto industry supposed to learn about new technology unless they can see first hand some of the more exotic cars from abroad that are cutting-edge. It's like we're still driving conestoga wagons while they're already in cars (and I'm from Detroit!)

[HistoryBuff]

I wanted to write him directly about the 959. Thank you one and all.

[GaryR]

I would disagree, it is a 911. Flat 6, water cooled, rear engine.

65-89 911
90-94 964 (still a 911)
95-98 993 (still a 911)
99-04 996 (still a 911)
05-11 997 (still a 911)
11-14 991 (still a 911)

[shahram]

959 is a 911 same as a 964 or 993 or 996 or 997 or 991.
All belong to the 911 plattform.

[bourgeois911]

Originally Posted by GaryR

I would disagree, it is a 911. Flat 6, water cooled, rear engine.

65-89 911
90-94 964 (still a 911)
95-98 993 (still a 911)
99-04 996 (still a 911)
05-11 997 (still a 911)
11-14 991 (still a 911)

Water cooled?

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by bourgeois911

Water cooled?

Yes, they are still 911's!!

[bourgeois911]

Originally Posted by GaryR

I would disagree, it is a 911. Flat 6, water cooled, rear engine.

65-89 911
90-94 964 (still a 911)
95-98 993 (still a 911)
99-04 996 (still a 911)
05-11 997 (still a 911)
11-14 991 (still a 911)

Originally Posted by GaryR

Yes, they are still 911's!!

I had to look it up. Apparently the cylinders were air cooled but the heads were water cooled. Live and learn I guess.

[GaryR]

I should have said "Flat 6, air or water cooled (or combo of both), rear engine.."

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by GaryR

I should have said "Flat 6, air or water cooled (or combo of both), rear engine.."

Bingo.

In WIKI's 911 page they reference a link to the GT-1 but add in the GT-1's link:

Although this car is not really considered to be a real 911 (largely because of its mid-mounted engine and built for homologation purposes),

Porsche 911 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Porsche 911 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Augustus]

My 996tt is a 911

Quote de bourgeois911

Water cooled?

Yes, they are still 911's!!

[TheRedSlantnose]

Well, the 959 is not exactly a 911 by classification since it's not part of the 911's "evolutionary line". It may look like a 911, but it's an entirely different car in that it has all-wheel drive (or four-wheel drive as some say), is equipped with a 6-speed, and has a twin-turbo engine, which were things the 911 wasn't equipped with at the time.

[TheRedSlantnose]

I was talking about the 959, not Augustus' car Sorry, I didn't mean to do that, I should've been more clear when I wrote that because I didn't realize how much it sounded like I was talking about his car, so I'll edit it.

And I do know the 996 is part of the evolutionary line

[Cluskera]

That's interesting .

The monocoque was essentially the same as 911s and it shared the 911 wheelbase.

Looking at it simplistically that's why a 911 can be turned into looking like a fake 959.

The engine shared nothing in common true.

In 89 the Carrera 4 apparently tried a simplified version of the PSK all wheel drive but it was ultimately dropped for a more conventional design.

Really clutching at straws: it's in Paul Frere,s book - "The 911 Story"...