Water INSIDE the paint?

[alfisti]

I noticed bubbling on the passenger side door jamb, where it meets the rocker panel rubber strip. I thought, "oh crap, rust" and pushed on it - and it pushed in easily. That was weird. So I took a screwdriver and popped it, and water came out.

How on earth did water get UNDER the paint? Where do I even start looking? Obviously I need to fix this ASAP.

Thanks
-Glenn

[E Sully]

Prepare to uncover the horrors of rust repair.
There are many cavities in the 911, and it seems to rust from the inside out.

[alfisti]

I understand - not my first rodeo :-) But where do I start? I presume there must be a drain hole plugged up somewhere. The sooner I find it, the less long term damage.

[wayner]

It is exposed to the elements for
The underside

If you feel up in front of the rear wheel you'll likely feel mud. Dig that out and you will find your water source

[alfisti]

Thanks, Wayne. I found some debris back there a month ago, I wouldn't be surprised if it was clogged up again. Why don't these cars use fender liners?

[alfisti]

You know, I wonder if I didn't CAUSE this. When I found the gravel and dirt back there, I hosed it out. I thought I was HELPING. Maybe that's how the water got it??

[E Sully]

Driving these cars causes the rust. With no fender liners, and cavities that hold water, they have little protection from small debris, water and salt. The sheet metal gets pummeled and rust is inevitable. Except of course climates like Arizona and such.

My project:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/724391-miles-go-before-i-sleep.html

[johnsjmc]

The steel likely has pin holes which allow water thru from behind . pinholes were caused by rust it just hasn,t reached the surface yet.

[porsche930dude]

undercoating cracks with age and lets water in the cracks and rust grows. if you dont see any rust underneeth you might be able to just undercoat it again in that area to help seal it up.

[wayner]

In a pinch I would hose it out, let it dry really well ( maybe flush out moisture with brake cleaner) and then coat with wax oil or non fling motorcyle chain lube ( essentially more readily available wax oil)

[alfisti]

OK, so I attacked the bubbles with a grinder on my dremel tool, and... it's not great news. Under the bubbling paint, there was a big pocket of water, and yes, a couple of rust holes, facing down (i.e. in the sill, not the vertical part of the door jamb. There may have been more inside the "nook" that is there when removing the weatherstripping... I ground that out as best I could, there was more dust (rust) coming out of there too.

Ground it all to bare metal and rust, and painted with POR-15, for protection while I strategize on this. Also, I can see there is still debris in the wheel wheel, in that corner. Oy. Another part of the adventure. I wonder what it will cost to have a pro fix this. :-\

On the bright side, this seems pretty isolated. The underbody LOOKS pristine, I don't see any evidence of this happening anywhere else.

*sigh*

Anything else I should do to try to halt the spread, while I count my spare change?

Thanks
-Glenn

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by alfisti

How on earth did water get UNDER the paint? Where do I even start looking?

What is under the bubbles? Maybe not steel?

Rocker panels are a pain to seal properly. When I say seal I mean a water tight seal using fiberglass or metal before "mud". Body filler, which is not a crime, if not set up with proper under-layment can bubble.

I have never popped a water blister but I have seen squillions of cars with obvious poor mud jobs that have many blisters. I am in NE Ohio. Lots of mud on lots of cars.

Aside from mud, the members that mention pin holes may be on to something. Paint is pretty flexible. Not sure where pressure comes from. Maybe it's just oxidation and the pin holes are now rusting under the paint on the outside surface causing the swelling and the bubbles just picked up water from your flushing, like you mentioned.

[alfisti]

Thanks, Bob (and everyone else) for the guidance.

Under the paint, it's primer and metal. Where it's rusted, it's black dust... I ground it as much as I dared until I realized I was making the hole bigger and not really accomplishing anything...

I STRONGLY suspect leaking from the back of the panel, and the wheel well looks like a prime candidate to me. I can't see any other way for a bubble filled with water to just form under the paint, which by the way - looked otherwise flawless from the outside. No pin holes. Just magically water bubbles. I popped them and water seeped out. Reminds me I need to buy more Clearasil.......

Thanks
-Glenn

[alfisti]

Oh, and I lied about one thing - I also see bubbles around the taillight on the drivers (other side) of the car. Haven't attacked that one yet.... :-\

[KNS]

Originally Posted by E Sully

Driving these cars causes the rust. With no fender liners, and cavities that hold water, they have little protection from small debris, water and salt. The sheet metal gets pummeled and rust is inevitable. Except of course climates like Arizona and such.

My project:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/724391-miles-go-before-i-sleep.html

No matter what you might hear sellers claim you can still find rust. My 1980 SC, which had spent its entire life in Socal and Arizona, had rust under the rubber rocker strips. I think a lot of owners would be surprised if they pull that strip up and peak underneath.

[alfisti]

So... just trying to reconcile this with what I read before I bought the car. The people who still use these cars as daily drivers must generally drive them only in dry weather?

With 232,000 miles on the car, I'm torn over how "nice" I need the car to be, and how long I expect it to be on the road. I don't want there to be one less Carrera in the world, but I'm having such fun driving it every day, I'm hesitant to park it half the time and drive something else.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by alfisti

So... just trying to reconcile this with what I read before I bought the car. The people who still use these cars as daily drivers must generally drive them only in dry weather?

Rain is fine except for the truly afflicted. Salt will accelerate.

Set it aside when roads are salted.

Not sure where you are.

[alfisti]

New Jersey. We got salt... lots of salt.

[johnsjmc]

I had an 80 SC , in Texas all it,s life. Part of the front gas tank /suspension support was rusted through.
It was 20 yrs old at the time. I remember a 1967 with a rusted out font end when less than 5 yrs old. Galvanized bodies do rust but not nearly as fast. Think about old steel water pails and galvanized rain gutters on a house.
I still put ours away for the winter here even with a galvanized body.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by johnsjmc

I had an 80 SC , in Texas all it,s life............
I still put ours away for the winter here even with a galvanized body.

My 81 was a Dallas, Atlanta, Houston based car and it had little bubbles on the hood cowl (the part the wipers exit from) in one spot along the fender. The tub where the front inner fenders attach (weld point) had pin holes and the rust crept up under the paint and bubbled it. Repair was easy once fenders were off but I was lucky that's all I had. The galvanized body saved my rear end from horror.

Originally Posted by E Sully

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/724391-miles-go-before-i-sleep.html

Miles to go before I sleep.

My old man was an English major. I distinctly remember the day in '63 when he whipped open the obits in the newspaper and said, "Here is Herbie Frammitz. Here is his one inch obituary. Here is Robert Frost. Here is his column and a half obituary. Who do you want to be like? Who's life do you want to replicate? Herbie or Robert Frost? Huh, little man? Choose."

I should have said, "Dad, I'm seven"

Funny the stuff you remember.