Drop engine with or without tranny?
 

Next weekend I plan to drop my engine and remove the 8 broken exhaust head studs on my '78 SC and check out the top end and clean up things. I am hoping to not get into the bottom end. My engine has 35,000 miles on it.

I understand I can drop the engine with or without dropping the transmission. Indeed I dropped the engine on my '73 without dropping the transmission.

What are the benefits/cons of dropping: a) with the transmission or b) without the transmission?

Thanks

Brad

It takes so much less time to drop them together. Much less hassle as well. I did the engine drop alone back in the 80's. To me it was a real PTA.

This makes sense. Getting that hex bolt off the starter is a PITA.

If the engine and tranny both are coming off:

1. Where is the balance point for my furniture dolly?

2. Does anyone have a list of instructions on how to do it? I have the 101 Porsche Projects book instructions but it does not involve dropping the transmission.

Balance point is just a little further back. The engine is the heavy part.
101 has a transmission removal section, just combine it with the engine removal section, eliminate duplicity and removing the starter.
No need to separate them either.

Engine and tranny together! Only way to go!

Thanks all. Another benefit is that I can clean the tranny easier when it is out.

However, I think I will separate them once out because will want to get the engine on an engine stand to make the work easier.

Engine drop using an engine dolly......
 

Brad,

I've been using this heavy duty home-made duty approx. 28" x 28" in dimension even after acquiring a hydraulic lift. I would never use a floor jack for an engine drop simply because of the balancing act and instability of the 500 lb. plus load. With the 500 lb. load sitting on a cart, getting it out under the car was easy and simple for an old guy with a back bad.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404330926.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404330939.jpg

As you can see from the above pictures, the engine weight could hold the transmission on a cantilever position. For more stability, place wooden blocks between the transmission and the cart. If you are using the smaller and weaker wooden furniture dolly, you have to position the furniture dolly more closer to the transmission due to smaller loading area.

Whatever technique you decide to implement, first and foremost, is your safety. Take your time and work with someone if possible.

Tony

Thanks Tony. Good tips and nice job on your cart. I will have plenty of help - it is amazing how many people drool at the chance to help take an engine out of a 911.

BTW - how the heck did you get the rear of your car so high up?! Is it resting on jack stands near or on the standard side jacking points? Can't tell from the picture. When you are that high in the rear, do you have problems with the front bumper touching the ground?

Tony,
Is that a crane you are using to lift the car? If so, could you show some pictures of how you are doing that?

i think it's easier to leave the trans in the car. just slide the shift coupler off the end of the trans and let the trans hang. the only thing you have to watch on installation is that the release fork engages with the t/o bearing, by watching with a mirror and flashlight through the hole in the driver side top of the bellhousing. viewed from the top. then just get the angle of the engine the same as the bellhousing face and wiggle them together. you can eyeball or use a protractor. recheck the fork before bolting them up. easier by far to balance on a jack, too.

I normally would not disagree with JW, except for this once. John has the benefit of doing 1000 engine drops by now. And he can do it blind folded with one hand tied behind his back. For anyone who is doing it the first time, and the next 10 times, the engine and tranny coming down together gives a chance see how the two fit and how they come apart without the need for flash light and mirror.

I am not a novice at dropping the 911 engine and I would still do it with the tranny. It does only take me 2 hours because I no longer stop to take notes and take pictures. And, I have all the necessary tools in one place.

I used a piece of plywood and a pallet truck to remove and install the engine/transmission. On installing I used a jack at the front of the transmission to get a better angle for the shift rod to get into the tunnel.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404347861.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404347891.jpg

I have a cart too if you want Russ to pick that up as well. It is very heavy though. For us newbies, drop the whole engine and trans.

with

it's a piece of cake taking out both

balance point is somewhere between the sump plate and the engine/tranny split

it's been a few years since I did my clutch but let me get the instructions out of the round file in my head

jack up back of car really high

detach battery leads

take out shift linkage screw

drain oil

remove/detach oil lines

remove harness connection on driver side of engine compartment

remove clutch cable

remove throttle cable

remove cv joints on tranny

remove cables to starter (should be 2? one big to the starter and one small to the solenoid?)

optional: remove muffler (it may be easier to get out with the muffler off, depending how high you jack the car up, I remember taking it off)

place jack under engine/tranny at balance point

remove back engine mount bolts

remove front tranny mount bolts

drop engine

I did it by myself but if you have help from a friend who is not mechanically challenged, it may go easier

When the motor/trans drop or reinstallation is done in a shop with a twin post lift, is the engine/trans put on a table of sorts and kept still, with the lift being used to raise or lower the chassis/car? Thanks, John

That's how I do it with my scissor lift, using an ATV jack to hold the engine and a floor jack under the trans to manipulate the angle. Easy.

I use the pelican floor jack adapter and my scissor lift.
Lift a bit with the lift, fit the jack and adapter under the engine, remove 4 mounting bolts, lower the jack a bit and tilt.
Lift the car and roll engine and tranny out.
Everything else disconnected first. One man under 2 hours.

Hmmm, good idea . I'm dropping my engine this weekend and I can borrow a pallet jack from work.

My way:

Drain oil and disconnect everything except 4 mounting bolts (2 engine, 2 tranny)
Floor jack under the engine case with dolly in place under engine/tranny
Lift rear with floor jack, take rear wheels off and lower car so that HE/engine rests on the dolly
Remove 4 bolts (2 engine, 2 tranny)
Use axle stands under torsion tubes and lift pads on door sills
Lift car with floor jack(s) acting on lift pads and raise axle stands as safety
Place wheels under car as safety on either side in case axle stands and floor jacks fail

With this method the engine/tranny never leaves ground level and is resting on the furniture dolly. Once the cars rear is high enough you can pull the engine/tranny package out. I don't even have to remove the rear valance. This can be done safely, as a one-man operation and take about 2h if you don't slack.

Ingo

I use a stout high table. That way you don't have to crawl around under the car as much. Obviously this only works with a two or four post lift. It also make the engine only drop much easier since you have room to align everything as it goes together. Then I just put the yoke and the engine stand on the engine and use the lift with straps to raise the engine enough to slide the table out. Lower the stand to the floor and you're done. One man job. Quick and easy.

ALWAYS!!!!! use the safety mechanisms when working under a lift.

Ingo -- I like your method. It seems much safer since the engine/tranny are never off the floor and simultaneously balanced in the air on the cart and/or floor jack set up prior to being lowered to the floor.

Mechanical chain hoists.........
 

Trackrash,

The contraption or device shown in the pictures is an A-frame structure built and designed by an engineer/scientist with a lifting capacity of 10K lbs. load. This was fabricated in the early 90's before the advent of Internet forums like PP.

I was using a two-ton (rear) and a five-ton (front) mechanical hoist for this engine drop. Ideally, a pair of 3-ton hoists would conveniently lift the whole car. With the engine still installed and the rear end up in the air, I could lift the front end of the car off the ground just using one hand.

This device have been in storage for a while now since I bought a hydraulic lift many years ago. This lift has been very helpful to me and others doing an engine drop for many years. Look very closely at the chain hook, there is a safety pin (hard to see) by the end of the bar to prevent the hook from sliding out. And 10-ton jackstand/s for additional support.

The engine cart slides under the car with plenty of space with all 4 wheels installed. With the cart properly positioned under the engine, the car is lifted and the the rear wheels removed. The car is brought slightly down about 1/2" clearance between engine and engine cart. Then removed all four (4) mounting bolts (engine and transmission) allowing the engine to sit on the engine cart.

With the CV axles removed, fuel lines and electrical are disconnected (etc.).......the car is raised up gradually in stages till the rear end of the car is about 3 feet from the ground and allow the engine to slide out. One major disadvantage of this A-frame is the inability to open the door/s during operation. Other than that, it was amazing!!!!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404395966.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404395992.jpg

I used to bring this device to different places to help some locals for their engine drop. I was then younger and full of energy. But age has caught on me and no longer do on the spot engine drop. Instead, people are invited to my place and do the engine drop instead. And my wife could keep an eye on me more and not away from home too long. A typical engine drop including prep and clean up takes almost a full day.

Tony

Hey Tony, I have send you a private message.

Juergen

I forgot to mention I only raised the car so the fan housing would clear the bumper. Once the fan cleared I lowered the car to a reasonable (safer) height.

Here is some more info on engine drop:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/764914-what-fastest-drop-engine-time-did-you-guys-have.html

I can't imagine how hard it would be to mate the engine to the transmission with the transmission in place.