1972 Factory S, Original?

[hbrand]

1972 Factory S, original??
Just started a ground up restoration on a matching numbers factory certfied light green 1972 S targa.
This car has perfect welded steel flares in the rear, 8.5inch rear magnesium?? wheels - they look like fuchs??, also 2.7 ltr cylinders, Piston rings 1.5, 1.5, 4mm, correct 2.7 MFI, cylinder heads dated 72, s cams, mech. speedo showing 180MPH.

How original or not could that be?
The cardex does only show the matching numbers.
Thanks harold

[Neilk]

Harold,

My "Certificate of Authenticity" from Porsche lists all the options that came with my car. Did you just get a listing of serial numbers or the whole Certificate from Porsche? Sounds interesting.

[RoninLB]

harold..I think pwd72s is an authority around here on a factory perfect '72s...eyeball an original irish green.......Ron

[Jim Richards]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's as original as the "rare" T-E Targa you're hawking in the used 911 parts section.

On the other hand, crow tastes good with a little salt and pepper.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by hbrand
1972 Factory S, original??
Just started a ground up restoration on a matching numbers factory certfied light green 1972 S targa.
This car has perfect welded steel flares in the rear, 8.5inch rear magnesium?? wheels - they look like fuchs??, also 2.7 ltr cylinders, Piston rings 1.5, 1.5, 4mm, correct 2.7 MFI, cylinder heads dated 72, s cams, mech. speedo showing 180MPH.

How original or not could that be?
The cardex does only show the matching numbers.
Thanks harold

Harold? No words from me on the welded flares. But a speedo showing 180? Sure isn't the one the factory placed in my 1972S. It goes to "only" 150. I remember seeing it approach that magic figure only once. Then before Nevada complied with the stupid 55 limit nationwide.... Harold? Buyer beware. The car you just purchased may not be worth a "ground up restoration". Post the VIN and engine numbers..maybe then we'd have a better idea. What makes me suspicious here? It's a TARGA. Even back then, they weren't usually selected for "special purpose"....

[marc weintraub]

Harold,

Jim's reply was right on. What is the deal with you? Why don't you post the VIN and Engine number. How about a copy of the Cardex scanned into this forum. Give us a look. You seem to not like to disclose information, but after having owned 2 72 "S" cars and a few other "S" cars after and before those, I find it hard to understand your prowess as a dealer. Overall, your site seems to have some wonderful cars on it, but I get the impression that you do not deal with early Porsches? I have to be in FLorida for business, maybe I will stop by and see what you have. Not that you would want to see me...

Are you one of those guys that buys early Porsches without knowing what he is buying? Wait... yes you are, unless this is a restoration for a client. I would hope that your client is smart enough to know what he or she has and what the potential value is.

Your timing is strange, especially after that "T" fiasco. So why ask after you have started this "restoration"... isn't this conversation too late?

P.S.: You should familiarize yourself with the 1966-1973 Porsche line and lineage. It is very different from the other years of Porsche production. You might also want to get the Dr. B. Johnson book "A Restorer's Guide To Authenticity". It is a wonderful guide to early Porsches within the range you are going after.

Also, Paul's 72"S" is a beauty and I would use his car as an example of what a 72"S" coupe should be. Your car sounds interesting, but not too sure about the build out. More information please!

Thanks,

Marc

[pwd72s]

Hey Marc, your early S ain't no slouch either...

[marc weintraub]

Paul...

Thanks for the compliment, but believe it or not, I might be seling my baby to start a new business. I am trying to sell one of my other Porsche before that one goes, but the economy is so bad I might get stuck selling the 73.

For everyone else, I just did a search on hbrand's user name in the archives. Without saying anything, please do the same and tell me what you think.

All The Best,

Marc

[pwd72s]

Marc? Pretty "commercial" isn't he? Should have told us so from the git go. Damn, 2 more numbers...if you're serious about selling your '73. Sunday morn, Cindy & I doing our usual Sunday morn routine in bed. After 28 years of marriage? That means reading the paper & drinking coffee. So, she holding our $1 Oregon lottery ticket, I read the numbers to her. The very first four, in order, were YES! (Man, it's been decades since I heard her say "YES!" like that...) Alas, the last two numbers didn't click. Instead of $13 million, the "winner" was worth a cup of coffee at the four seasons in NYC. If it had been those 2 numbers? Well, your '73 Targa is awfully nice! And it is indeed an "S"! If I were Bill Gates? I'd probably own all the decent 2.4 "S" cars left on the planet! Far as I'm concerned, the 2.4 S was the high point of the 911 production car line....

[nostatic]

It is interesting that a "dealer" who specializes in restorations doesn't know the basics about the cars he buys/restores/sells. Would you buy a car from someone like that? This bbs is probably one of the better sources of info out there, but I'd expect he'd at least crack a book. The "TE" nonsense was ridiculous...

http://www.dreamsonwheels.com/images/porsche/79Porsche/index.html

http://www.dreamsonwheels.com/images/porsche/78Porsche/index.html

And where the heck is the air pump on the '78? The '79? And a Carrera steering wheel? Cup (imitation?) wheels? Where are the seats in the '79 from? So many questions...run screaming baby.

Same cars on egad

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1858357565

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1858357558

[nostatic]

If the yellow car is "accident free", why are there no front fenders and what appears to be bondo on the rears before starting the "restoration" (see his web site). Just curious...

[hbrand]

"If the yellow car is "accident free", why are there no front fenders and what appears to be bondo on the rears before starting the "restoration" (see his web site). Just curious... "

How else could you repaint this car to its original yellow color??


Thanks, harold

[hbrand]

HERE ARE THE NUMBERS:

6112310825, 6322139, TRANSMISSION 328776

EMERALD GREEN, BLACK LEATHER
BORN ON 04/23/1972.

PICTURES WILL BE POSTED SOON. SHOWING THE ENGINE GETTING WORKED ON AND THE BODY DISASSEMBLED.

AND PLEASE: ANYBODY CAN COME AND VISIT MY SHOP AND HELP ME GETTING STARTED IN PORSCHES.

I THINK THAT MOST OF THE EARLY CARS SHOULD BE PRESERVED, WORKED ON OR RESTORED.

BY THE WAY I INSPECTED THE PARTSCAR IN DELAND WITH THE SPORT SEATS. THE SEATCOVERS ARE HARDENED, THE FRAMES ARE RUSTED. ENGINE MUST HAVE WATER DAMAGE.

THANKS, HAROLD

[epbrown]

The numbers check out for a '72 911S Targa, at least. Going back to your original post, the car doesn't sound very original, but the changes made (SC flares and 2.7 MFI engine) are performance upgrades. Depending on condition, it could still be worth a decent amount, though not as much as a good original 911S, imo.

Emanuel

[hbrand]

[Jim Richards]

Harold, is there any way you can track down documentation about the upgrades? If they were done by the original dealer to the original owner's specifications, that would be kind of special.

[nostatic]

So are you going to try and find period correct parts/interior for the S? Again, just curious since the SCs are not really "restored" (depending of course on your definition), but rather just appear to be repainted.

[barlowdo]

Harold,

In looking at the befores and afters, I think you work hard for your money.

-Don

[marc weintraub]

I'm curious about why the tach redline is so low. This car is starting to sound like the Frankenstein of cars. If the engine was built out to 2.7 and it is an "S", the tach should still be a 7300 redline.

Marc