Speeding ticket today - bummed.

[Chris Lovell]

Today, with 15 year old daughter in the p-car, I did what the car likes best and ran up through second and part way into third on a little residential/country road in my home town. I came upon a motocycle traveling the other way, sensed the local motorcyle cop, slowed (too late), and was pulled over a 1/4 mile later by yet another local cruiser blocking the road like I was an suspected terrorist.

Here's the facts:
- I was probably going around 60 on an unposte road.
- The cop said without posting, the road is 40 mph.
- He issued a ticket for 61 in a 40 and mentioned that I might consider appealing to save a few bucks. (Any idea what he was really saying?)
- I have only one ticket in 35 years and that was, believe it or not, going 26 in a 15!

I am definitely going to appeal. I think I can make the argument that I was not going 61 and ask them to prove it. I also thought I might mention that I am not your regular criminal based on my relatively clean record.

I am appealing for advice from the Pelican heads out there.

Thanks.

[Rick Lee]

FIGHT IT! FIGHT IT in the air, fight on sea! NEVER SURRENDER! Sounds like a bogus rap to me. That's a reckless here in VA which is big trouble. You need to beat this one.

[930Chas]

Definitely appeal it. A couple of years ago, I was running behind a tractor trailer on a long boring stretch of highway. We were running 70 in a 55 mph. A trooper popped out on the road and flagged both of us down. He wrote me a ticket, and ignored the tractor trailer. Granted, I know the truck drivers are out there making a living, but it is unfair to give me a ticket and not him. I went to court and appealed, $75 and nothing on my record. Plus, it didn't really matter because the supertroper didn't show up. If they don't show up to argue it, you are in the clear, or so I have been told.

[TimT]

OK I am sure i will get heat for this....

Pay the ticket......

Ask yourself how much of your time do you want to try and fight it? Is it worth it?

[Rick Lee]

Yes - it is worth it. Any chance I get to rob the state of their bs revenue-driven ticket-writing I consider time well spent. Even if you lose in court, the state loses more than you end up paying. When you walk into that courtroom, they lose money right away. Maybe someday they'll start going after left-lane squatters, turn-signal non-users and people who drive too slowly. I fight every single ticket and I almost always win. Every day I see deadly drivers out there with impunity and often see cops doing well over the reckless limit - saw one today on the Beltway. Ignore your rights and they will go away!

[MBAtarga]

FWIW, Here in Georgia I have been told that a ticket written for more than 20MPH over the speed limit carries a higher fine and significantly more points. It might be beneficial to contest the ticket, if only to get the severity of the ticket dropped - say admit to driving over the limit, but contest the 61MPH.

[Brian993]

Fight it all the way. In this wonderful state of Rome I live in a speeding ticket is worthyears of costly insurance premiums. Unless of course your some kind of pussy, then you could just pay it.

[LeeH]

Here's what I would do in your situation (and this is not to suggest that you - or anyone else need do the same)...

I would go back to the point where I entered the road and drive it to the point where I was pulled over. I'd look carefully for any speed limit sign that might have been knocked over or covered by foilage. If I found such a thing I'd take pictures or video to take to court.

I'd also investigate the law. Should the road have been posted by law? Does the law actually say unposted = 40 mph? If so, then I'd pay the fine and use the situation as an example to teach my daughter how to accept responsibility and that ignorance of the law is not an acceptable defense.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be inflammatory here! That's just what I would do.

[YTNUKLR]

I suggest you fight it. Ways to get off the hook:
1) The cop doesn't show up.
2) You ask for certificates pertaining to:
A)Radar certification
B)Cop certification to use radar
C)In CA, the cop must check speed for 1/4 mile before he/she can write a ticket.
D)Get a driving handbook and see what the unposted limit is for the road you were driving on.
E)Numerous other documents that could be found somewhere on the internet.
The cop must present all of these documents at your case. If one or more is not present, or if one or more is expired, the case is thrown out.

[Bobboloo]

The laws were written to keep the roads safe. I don't think you were driving in an unsafe manner so I wouldn't feel bad trying to get out of it. I think the sound of the high rpm's attracted the wrong kind of attention.

I would suggest posting bail to fight the ticket. When the court date is set call and have it changed to another day of the week. Chances are the guy won't be there because they try and schedule it on a day that he usually does court.

Bobby

P.S. Don't be bummed. Be proud. It's a Porsche for Gods' sake.

[Chris Lovell]

Bobboloo, always proud. Still bummed. The speed was okay and pretty normal. The daughter being part of the gestapo style drama has me down.
Does anyone have any experience in how to find out about radar certification, what police need to bring to court, what a magistrate will be receptive to (and not), etc.
I'm putting my appeal plan together. I will use the good advice in this thread but all other ideas are welcome.
At the very least, I would think I could get the speed reduced to under 60 based on something.

[cegerer]

This might help:

http://www.motorists.com/issues/tickets/

-- Curt

[autobonrun]

One potential weakness you should verify are the statements that:

- I was probably going around 60 on an unposted road.
- The cop said without posting, the road is 40 mph.


Verify what the law states about speed limit when unposted. This could be the officers opinion and not the law in your area. Even if the 40 mph in an unposted area is correct, if there is a speed limit posted earlier on the same road, yet no sign to indicate where the unposted section begins and for that matter ends, you could argue that there was insufficient notification of the fact. You could say if there was no notification of this being an unposted area, there is no way to tell this fact from say a missing speed limit sign.

If you don't want to spend the time, see if your area has a way to take a DE class to eliminate the ticket. In my city, one time a year, you can get the ticket reduced to a non-moving violation (basically a parking ticket) by paying twice the fine. In some cases, this is the least painful.

Good luck

[walt]

In NC you can plead it down to under 10 mph under the speed limit if you have no other traffic offenses in the past three years. It seems like the prosecutors encourage this to save time in the courts. This would avoid the insurance points since you have an otherwise clean record. Check out the law in Ma.

[hilandscott]

A question:

Did they tell you how they measured your speed? I didn't get from the story if the motorcycle officer called ahead to the cruiser who had instant on (K,Ka, laser). Or if they pulled you over with no radar because you appeared to be exceeding the limit. Usually motorcycles have radar guns of some type and must be stationary.

Let your education commence. Know the rules and practices. Definitely set a good example for your offspring after getting over the anger/embarrassment. Don't show up in court like I did uninformed to badly informed. I actually had no idea how local courts were run-- it was a real eye opener for me. I went just on principal to fight it, but the officer was there and the certification was in order. I didn't stand a chance. Don't let enyone tell you that if he isn't wearing a hat he isn't in uniform, therefore ticket won't stick...or that they can't get you from private property. Sheesh.

The cops advice makes the ticket sound arbitrary, If no one was around you then they have no way to measure even *relative* speed. Find out what's up and make a decision on how you will spend your time. A 20mph over ticket is a bunch of points and can set you up to be dropped in your P-car, even by a big name you've been with for many years. My impression: it sounds like to are being snowed and they hope that you will just pay.

If a detector is legal it is a very worthwhile investment. Of course, it is always best to keep an eye on the road.

Good luck!

[Joeaksa]

If they used radar then it has to be calibrated and within a certain time limit. Had you asked at that time they have to show you the display showing how fast you were going and calibrate it on the spot to verify its accuracy.

I know of one or two people who got out of tickets when they pushed the issue in court and it was found that the radar unit in question was not in calibration...

Joe

[beamonk]

Rule no. 1, get a lawyer. Judges and prosecutors do not want to hear what you have to say, as everyone telling their story gets to be too much for them. It is usually easy for a lawyer to get it dismissed on payment of costs, driving school, or some other deal without too much work. Unless the prosecutor has a hard on or is just a jerk.
Rule no. 2, don't play Perry Mason. Lawyers share a bond of suffering through going to law school and listening to problems all day long, you can't fit into our clan without proper suffering.

I went to law school to get off on tickets, hey, you have to have priorities straight!

[davis911s]

I probably shouldn't be answering this question as I am in Police College right now, but.....

FIGHT IT,

Everyone is right,

first off if the guy doesn't show you win. (This is unlikely because even if it his day off he still gets paid a days wage to go to court just for your ticket, that is the rule in many areas.)

Second- Yes ask him how he measured your speed, all lot of times people who are not officially qualified to use the equipment are using it to issue offence tickets. (hey if only 50% of the people pay them its a gain for them)

Third- If he is inded there, AND qualified on the equipment used asked him when it was last calibrated and how often it is calibrated. Then ask if he is sure it was calibrated that day.

This is the important part here in Canada- I can't say for the states. Ask him at what time he calibrated it. All of this information has to be in our notebooks here. If it is not in our notes that we calibrated it at that time -IT WASN"T DONE. (With that one most good officers will have it done, and documented, so you would be out of luck) Ask him about traffic conditions at the time, weather etc, all of this should be documented.

But even if the Officer did everything perfect and the judge finds you guilty there is a chance that he will lower the fine, and give you more time to pay.

Worst case scenario is that you have to pay the full fine, but you get three months longer to pay it, AND you had a great learning exrperience.

HOWEVER the best advice is to obey the speed limits, adn play one TRACK!

Shawn

[Drago]

Originally posted by davis911s

HOWEVER the best advice is to obey the speed limits, adn play one TRACK!

Shawn

Hey Shawn,

To bad that little piece of advice was *never* followed on that little "RoundUp" we all enjoyed a couple of months ago.

....well, maybe when it rained and, well...then maybe while driving through Whistler....but thats about it...

[Neilk]

Chris.

Get a ticket lawyer. They should be able to take care of your ticket for less than $100. My brother has had 4-5 tickets dismissed with his lawyer.